Superhero Fanfiction= OC/Sues? (19)

1 Name: Smile : 2011-02-03 19:37 ID:LBjoVozx

So I just started to get into Young Justice and, like any good fan, looked up the fandom on FFNet. I was a little surprised at all of the OC fics people have written for it. Looking back, I've also noticed that a lot of superhero fandoms suffer from Sue fics. Even compared to more popular fandoms, stuff like Justice League, Batman Begins/Dark Knight, and YJ all have an overflow of OCs.

Any thoughts as to why this happens?

2 Name: Marth : 2011-02-03 20:33 ID:kjP99iz+

A couple things: First, because superhero tend to be more forgiving toward characters with Sueish traits than other kinds of fiction. A well-done superhero--say, Batman--doesn't register as a Sue because he's a developed character who fits into his universe, even though he's super-awesome and rich and has a tragic past and everything. Suethors, traditionally, are shit at writing interesting characters and making them mesh well with their worlds, so their OCs flaws (from a reader's perspective, not their in-story "flaws") are more noticeable.

Second, because superhero universes tend to be grab-bags of ridiculousness. When your setting has aliens AND several pantheons worth of gods AND psionics AND stupid crying robots AND so forth, all of whom are major characters, I think it's a lot easier to rationalize giving a character a grab-bag of incredible powers than it would be in a fandom where what a character can do is more well-defined.

Third (and you see this a lot in bad official superhero design, too), since there are so many really cool powers possible in a superhero universe, I think OC writers tend to focus more on what their character can do than who their character is. That's part of bad character design the world over, of course, but it's been my experience that it's worse in fandoms with higher-powered characters.

However, your post sounds like you're conflating "OC" and "Sue." And while it's true that superhero fandoms are generally beset by Sues, there are certainly worthwhile OC fics out there, just like there are in any fandom.

Though, ah, after looking through the YJ section, that may not be true there yet. XD

3 Name: Smile : 2011-02-03 20:50 ID:LBjoVozx

>>2 Most of the time I don't go into a fic that's centered around an OC.
The OC stories in the YJ are mainly Sues. I checked a few to see if there was anything good going and found long descriptions about a girl's outfits, powers, and appearance. I stopped pretty soon.

All are good points. I particularly like the 2nd one. It's very true. The OCs that pop up in Batman Begins are generally worse than the ones that appear in YJ or JL, for obvious reasons.

Ah, sorry about that. When OCs are main characters I tend to label them as Sues out of habit. ^^, You're right about the good OC stories; I've read one or two myself.

4 Name: Bitch Goddess : 2011-02-04 10:09 ID:jjTl3psY

Personally, though I vaguely agree with >>2 & >>3, I think the reason there are so many OC's in superhero fanfiction is because they are usually the ones to be without significant others in the original form. Take Batman Begins/Dark Knight, whether you look at Batman Begins or Dark Knight, Bruce Wayne doesn't have a real significant other. And after DK his possibility of a woman is dead so then he's really without complication. It's easy to create an OC and fit them into the story if there isn't someone else you have to give a reason for why they're not there.

5 Name: Smile : 2011-02-04 12:23 ID:LBjoVozx

>>4: That's a good point. Thankfully, the new movie is going to have Catwoman in it. She, I think, will draw attention away from some OC writing. Or not. It's hard to tell.

My biggest problem with the Batman OCs is that they're generally in a love triangle between Batman and the Joker. When the Joker falls in love in any shape or form you've got a problem.

6 Name: J : 2011-02-04 16:53 ID:wFBquj2U

This reminds me of a similar story,

I can get by the escaped convict falling into an open air particle accelerator (we have one in the vacant lot next door and I am always telling my 8 year old to stop playing near it), I can even get by the space slime landing coincidently metres from Peter and jumping on his bike... What I cant get past is Mary Jane. What a fucking bitch. In the first movie she is letting the school bully do her, then she lets the rich guy, then Peter has a turn. In the second movie she goes through about eighteen different guys before abandoning her big expensive wedding after realising Peter is spiderman. In the third film I think she does about sixty guys and whinges a lot about peter saving lives instead of coming to the theatre to watch her crap acting. Why does he put up with her? It makes no sense and is the one glaring discrepancy in an otherwise completely scientifically believable movie.

7 Name: Yemi Hikari : 2011-02-04 22:30 ID:OB09EziE

>>2 - On the first point, the thing to remember is, it isn't the traits that make a Mary Sue/Gary Stu, but how they are used. On the second point, if the canon does it, sometimes it is justifiable to have a character that is that way. However, I've also seen people use that as an excuse in their writing. On the third point, I seriously agree. Having a super powered character with no personality is worse then having a super powered character with a personality. I think the one time I really object to OCs being entered into Superhero/Magical Girl fandoms is when they usurp the canon characters in importance. Particularly when you might as well be writing original work.

>>3 - Aka, your dealing with the Suethors who like creating the characters for what we all know to be obviously wish fulfillment characters.

>>4 - For people without siginificant others, it can be easier to create that person due to the fact the writer isn't stuck killing off the significant others. However, they tend to fall into the trap of trying to make them mondo special simply to be paired with the person. Hitsugaya Toshiro gets it from Bleach... people creating girls with a rank of captain or leutenant and even having them know bankai. You know what I tell them? The girl doesn't need to be mondo special to be paired with someone, she just needs to be herself. It goes over a good deal of Suethor's heads though.

>>5 - Ahh... I can see how the newer movies would be a problem. I think that you'll start seeing a different problem with that fandom... girls killing off Catwoman or one-upping her, or something. The love triangle they created... seriously... there are certain things that just aren't good writing.

>>6 - Yeah. The MJ I know from Spider Man wasn't like that. Yeah, she dated a few other guys, but the movies turned her rather into a slut. She's... why are people advocating characters like that and Bella Swan? Actually, her attitude makes it easier for fans whove only seen the movies to push her aside, or those who choose to do movie canon.

8 Name: Smile : 2011-02-05 07:41 ID:LBjoVozx

>>7: Ugh, you're right. The best part is that the new Sue's gonna be exactly like Catwoman. The creativity of Sue-authors is stifling sometimes.

>>6: Surprisingly, a lot of fic writers in the Spiderman fandom don't kill her off. I think it's because most of them are thinking of her as the comic book MJ.

9 Name: Bitch Goddess : 2011-02-05 09:09 ID:jjTl3psY

>>5 Well, we'll have to see if there will be a love interest between Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle. Wouldn't surprise me if there wasn't though, the story isn't really condusive to a significant other at the moment.
And as far as the Joker goes...well it's true that he wouldn't "fall in love" with just anyone. However, in the comics, the Joker has a semi-steady girlfriend named Harley Quinn. Given he was highly abusive and they were always doin' the off and on thing, but they were together and it was actually very believable and worked well with the character.

>>7 Yea, sometimes they OC's become the "mondo special" model, but it seems to me, at least in Batman Begins fiction, that most authors strive to make their OC's more normal. Heroes don't want someone as complicated as them I wouldn't think, so making someone just a normal person would draw them more I think.

10 Name: J : 2011-02-05 12:16 ID:6oBo3YQP

i think i've found a video that might help you on the matter, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EK2tWVj6lXw

11 Name: Smile : 2011-02-05 16:48 ID:LBjoVozx

>>9: Selina is almost always Bruce- well, Batman's girlfriend. I'd be really, really disappointed if she wasn't a romantic interest in the new movie; she's one of his most suiting love interests.

I remember Harley mainly from the Batman Animated Series a few years ago. Thing is, I wouldn't say that the Joker loved her. She seems, from what I understand, to be very dispensable to him. They worked well together as a couple and partners, yeah, but I wouldn't call what they had 'love'.

With that in mind, I see any situation where the Joker falls in love with an OC/Sue really hard to believe. Like you said, J's relationship with Harley worked well, but it was riddled with things that BAD relationships had. Putting the Joker in a character suit where he loves another character enough to not hurt them is very... OOC. Almost as much as making Batman a smiling, happy-go-lucky optimist.

>>10 The link won't work for me. D:

12 Name: Bitch Goddess : 2011-02-05 22:08 ID:jjTl3psY

>>11 Agreed, I wasn't trying to say that it is believable that a Joker would fall in love with an OC, simply that he may be persuaded to let a female into the inner circle as he did Harley. If only for a sick fascination, as he had with Harley. Not sure how they did in the animated series, but in the comics she was his psychologist at Arkham, it was hinted that he held a fascination with her fascination with him. But I think that if someone feels the urge to have an OC with the Joker they better be prepared for it to be an abusive situation. But I have yet to find an even mediocre Joker/OC fic.

Yea, Catwoman was Batman's love interest alot in the comics, but only in Batman Returns was Selina Kyle Bruce Wayne's love interest. In the comics he mostly focused on Talia al Ghul. And since, so far, Christopher Nolan has only acknowledged having Selina Kyle in the movie, not her alter ego, we'll have to see if some love crops up.

13 Name: Yemi Hikari : 2011-02-06 15:00 ID:OB09EziE

>>8 - Egad... the notorius Copy Cat Sue

>>9 - I know about Harley Quinn. Simular to Bella Swan being in an abusive situation, Harley Quinn likely is in one too. However, in that same regaurd, I think that while Bella swann is dillusional in believing that the abuse doesn't exist, Harley knows it exists but loves it, a true masochist.

It may have to due with the fact that Batman Beyond, Terry is in high school, so making a normal high school chick may come across as easy.

>>10 - Not available in my country. Sorry.

>>11 - They've done an awsume job adapting the canon so far. I too find the whole Joker/OC thing as laughable as Voldemort/OC or Aizen/OC. What is it with these girls not getting that certain people are either a psycopath who has no feelings, or a complete narcisist when it comes to themselves.

>>12 - Thing is, I think too many writers miss that point about the Joker. Interesting on the alter ego and not Catwoman. Maybe! Maybe if her alter ego isn't in this movie, it is going to be in the next and he's planning a head! Big whoop!

I got to thinking about the Teen Titan fanfics that I read in the past, the ones for the cartoon. Here are the things I remember.

  • A good deal of the OC stories were not made for pairing an OC with a character, and when they were they tended to create an OC for every character. They were more to self insert oneself as the cool new superhero.
  • Something bothered me about people taking the comic canon an applying it to the actual canon of the cartoon and critiqing fanfics using that. From what I've garnered, the can is very different from each other.

14 Name: Yemi Hikari : 2011-02-06 15:01 ID:OB09EziE

>>8 - Egad... the notorius Copy Cat Sue

>>9 - I know about Harley Quinn. Simular to Bella Swan being in an abusive situation, Harley Quinn likely is in one too. However, in that same regaurd, I think that while Bella swann is dillusional in believing that the abuse doesn't exist, Harley knows it exists but loves it, a true masochist.

It may have to due with the fact that Batman Beyond, Terry is in high school, so making a normal high school chick may come across as easy.

>>10 - Not available in my country. Sorry.

>>11 - They've done an awsume job adapting the canon so far. I too find the whole Joker/OC thing as laughable as Voldemort/OC or Aizen/OC. What is it with these girls not getting that certain people are either a psycopath who has no feelings, or a complete narcisist when it comes to themselves.

>>12 - Thing is, I think too many writers miss that point about the Joker. Interesting on the alter ego and not Catwoman. Maybe! Maybe if her alter ego isn't in this movie, it is going to be in the next and he's planning a head! Big whoop!

I got to thinking about the Teen Titan fanfics that I read in the past, the ones for the cartoon. Here are the things I remember.

  • A good deal of the OC stories were not made for pairing an OC with a character, and when they were they tended to create an OC for every character. They were more to self insert oneself as the cool new superhero.
  • Something bothered me about people taking the comic canon an applying it to the actual canon of the cartoon and critiqing fanfics using that. From what I've garnered, the can is very different from each other.

15 Name: Bitch Goddess : 2011-02-06 21:10 ID:jjTl3psY

>>14 Unfortunately, there is no next one for Christopher Nolan. sob. But we'll have to see how it all works out.

16 Name: Yemi Hikari : 2011-02-07 02:21 ID:OB09EziE

>>15 - I don't get what you are getting at. He's working on the third movie, right... as director. Or did you mean someone else. Very... very... very confused.

17 Name: Bitch Goddess : 2011-02-07 09:36 ID:jjTl3psY

>>16 I mean that after this one he's making right now, The Dark Knight Rises, there won't be another Batman movie made by Christopher Nolan. So if he doesn't do anything with Selina Kyle as far as romance goes in this one, it probably won't ever come to pass. I doubt that many people will want to pick up the franchise after Christopher Nolan is done with it; hard bard to reach.

18 Name: Yemi Hikari : 2011-02-08 14:17 ID:OB09EziE

Ehh... bummer. He was like... on level of the first Batman movie release. So I guess... no, a lot of people would be afraid to touch it. I tried googling an official statement, but didn't have luck.

19 Name: J : 2011-02-08 16:02 ID:jpZdE79z

never gonna give you up isnt available in your country? i feel utterly sorry for you guys D:

Name: Link:
Leave these fields empty (spam trap):
More options...
Verification: