You know, I look through the list of threads and there are a few which ask questions like what's your nationality, what are your problems or what do you think of X? Originally for this thread I was going to ask Who Believes in God? But then I thought: that's going to exclude a whole lot of people, which I don't want because I'd like everyone to have a word in this, so, whether Christian or not, here we can talk about God :)
I know, He's a big deal (pun intended :p) to talk about and loads of people might get very hot-headed about this kind of subject, as it is very deep to say the least. But I'm hoping there'll be polite and reasonable comments here anyway, please.
I'm not intending for there to be any rants here (you know, like those extremists - no offense to them - who like to shout at people about God), because it's not pleasant for everybody else and it's not a great way to have a conversation. And that's what I really want: a conversation, that's easy-going, thought-provoking and inclusive. Everyone's welcome to say their thoughts, and, well, even start an argument (provided that it doesn't involve insults and swearing!). shrugs How can there not be arguments? (Provided again that they're respectful to others) And it's interesting to hear people's opinions.
I'm a Christian myself (no duh) and I'm just curious about the amount of other Christians on ff.net too, as I rarely find any outside of church. But it feels really great when I discover one on ff.net and it comes as a surprise to me heh.
So...what are your thoughts?
In contrast with the video in >>353 here's one featuring a great man, who is most blessed by God, and is a living example of his love, care and provision:
Nick Vujicic: Life Without Limbs - CBN.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl58qufXfYk
@eeyop1428 - God is kind, loving and gentle? How do these attributes relate to him? Before I continue, let me stress that I do NOT mean to offend you or anyone else with my words.
From what I've read in the Bible, and admittedly that is very little, I do not see God as kind and loving. Allow me to give some things I noted, complete with the Bible verses they refer to.
Genesis
3:1-24 The creation of Man, and the sin. The serpent tricks Eve into eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. However, it should be noted that God, who is supposedly always just and righteous, had lied about the consequences of eating from the tree. When Adam and Eve realize they’re naked, they cover themselves up. God punishes the serpent, but also makes the lives of Adam and Eve a lot harder. Then, realizing that they now have the knowledge of Good and Evil like he has, he sets up a Cherubim guard to protect the Tree of Life. From this I deduce that he fears them.
4:1-26 God is everything but loving to Kain. Of course Kain gets angry when God doesn’t like his offering, who wouldn’t? Then, after Kain slays Abel, God curses him but also makes him invulnerable. What kind of punishment is that?
6:5-9:7 The Flood. After the waters have dried, God smells the scent of what is basically Noah’s barbecue, and decides never to purge the earth again. What kind of sense is that? Also, he says that he’ll demand the blood of all living things, and that humans who spill blood will have theirs spilt by other humans, because they were made in God’s image. Conclusion: God is violent?
9:8-17 The sign of the Covenant is a rainbow? Does God need a reminder if he is omnipotent and omniscient? No, he doesn’t. Then what’s the point?
9:18-29 Cham warns his brothers and they help their father. Why then does Noah curse Cham’s son? Where’s the logic in that? If someone helps you, you thank them, you don’t curse them.
11:1-9 The Tower of Babel. There is unity among Man, and God says, “Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is what they begin to do: and now nothing will be withholden from them, which they purpose to do. Come, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.”
This raises one question: WHY?! Why would you divide what is united? What is the point?! Isn’t unity supposed to be our biggest strength? Why does God, who supposedly loves us, divide us? I can only surmise that this is because he fears us.
12:1-9 Why Abraham? What is his significance? God basically grants him unlimited powers as he’ll bless whomever Abraham blesses and curse whomever he curses.
12:10-20 Abraham knows he’s got God on his side and is thus basically invulnerable. Still he makes Sarah say she’s his sister rather than his wife, which causes the Pharaoh to take her as his wife, whereupon God plagues him horribly. The Pharaoh’s question to Abraham, ‘Why didn’t you tell me’ is very legit. Again, why? Why did Abraham decide to act the way he did?
13:1-18 Why is God so focused on giving Abraham his own country? What’s the point of that?
14:1-17 Lot is the son of Abraham’s brother, but a few lines later he’s referred to as his brother.
15:1-21 God promises Abraham the land, but then goes back on his own word by saying his descendants will have it, only to be repressed by another people led by God. Nice promise that is.
16:1-16 Sarah tells Hagar to have Abraham’s child, but when she gets pregnant she suddenly turns on her and humiliates her. What is that supposed to mean? Then an angel tells Hagar that Ishmael would be hated by all and that he would hate all. Nice prospect.
17:1-27 Circumcision. Do I even have to go there? Why would God order something so ludicrous? If he thinks it has to go, why create humans with it?
18:1-15 Sarah laughs, is embarrassed by this, says she hasn’t laughed and God says, Yes you did. Childish much?
19:1-29 Lot’s wife looks back and turns into a pillar of salt. Abraham looks at the cities and nothing happens. What the fuck?
19:30-38 Lot’s daughters want to get pregnant so they basically rape their father. But Lot doesn’t notice it. How can you not notice getting something like that? How is it even possible without some help?
20:1-18 Again Abraham screws a king over with the ‘my wife is my sister’ thing. And God just plays along. Why?
21:8-21 Hagar and Ishmael are now useless to Abraham, so they’re ditched. Way to go.
22:1-19 Abraham doesn’t even question God’s order to sacrifice his only son. Great father. Isaac doesn’t protest when he is bound on the altar. Weird kid.
I apologize for the sarcasm, but this comes from a file I have called Bible Commentaries, my own sidenotes to the verses. I already cleaned up the swears from it for public viewing.
@ eeyop, you are the only (at least) out-spoken Christian on here, and you have my sympathies in that regard. However, you created this thread; surely you were expecting dissent?The reason you have so many responses criticisng your stance is because your arguments are weak.
Do you have any idea how disgusting that sounds? Well, no, of course you don't. I'm sure that sounded lovely when you thought of it and typed it out. That you think that justifies him saving you from being pen-less but not saving a child...it boggles the mind that you and your God are so cruel.
5. Hell: "He believes that God created Hell, but that is wrong. He never created it in the first place; only when the angel Lucifer went against him was Hell formed, as a punishment for warring against God." <<< So who made hell? Reading that twice, it sounds like you are saying 'God DID make hell, but only to put Satan and everyone he doesn't like in there.' In which case, the guy in the video is correct, God did make hell and does send people there.
6. Forgiveness: You say God always forgives us? Well, evidently not, as when you go to Hell, you stay there, suffering for all eternity.
7. "God always loves": Obviously not; see 'Hell.' Doesn't seem too loving to me.
"Your cynicism prevents you from hearing God because you always push him away, as do many others. Just by thinking or talking negatively about the faith pushes him away." <<<
It's called, Eeyop, having a critical mind. It means I don't just pick upand read, say the Koran or the Bible or myths of ancient Greek Gods and go "OMG!!This explains how everything happened, it must be true!!" Rather I think about it, look at facts, evidence and then decide. The Bible, on which the Christian faith is based, is a shaky text that I am still investigating. I am open minded enough to look at things other than preacher, his followers and a single book. I look at the for and aginst arguments. I look at alternative arguments.
This is why I am not superstitous, why I do not fall for money scams, why I do not prejudice aginst different races, genders or sexualities. And I didn't need a book to tell me to be this way.
>>363, God didn't lie. He said they would know good and evil, i.e. that they would become wiser and self sufficient. And they did, I think the 'covering themselves with leaves' was a sign that they had gained 'morality.'
What does bother me is...if Adam and Eve did not know the difference between good and evil, then how could they be punished for doing an 'evil'? They didn't know the difference.
Other than that, I agree whole heartedly. In fact, there are more to add.
You mention Abrahams son, at least he got saved, Jepthah's daughter (who isn't even named) is cooked. In Judges 11:31 J offers to God a burnt offering of the first person to leave his house if God lets him win some battle. The first person is his daughter. She goes to weep for her virginity and then, in verse 39, she returns and he 'carries out his vow to God.' Nice.
2Kings 23-25
Elisha calls down evil (in the form of two hugnry 'she-bears') to kill forty-two small boys. Their sin? They called him 'baldhead.'
1 Kings 13:18, a prophet is tricked into dispbeying God. So in verse 24, he is killed by a Lion. So much for forgiveness huh...?
Daniel 6:24, after not being eaten by the Lions, the men who had conspired to have Daniel killed (through the egotism of the King) are thrown into the pit...along with their wives and children.
The battle of Jericho, were women, men even friggen animals were slaughtered!
Lets not forget all the mass murder of the people of Canaan, (oh, but they were bad, so it's ok..but, oh yeah, the young girl were kept alive. Wonder why?)
Genesis 19:8- Lots daughters are offered up to a crowd of sexual deviants. In Judges 19:10 the same thing happens to a Levite priest. So he does the honourable thing and throws out his concubine. She is raped all night. She dies on his doorstep and is found in the morning (he was busy sleeping all night.) In his agonised sorrow, he chops her up into 12 peices.
One last thing, >>357 you say "You keep pointing your finger at the bible for its ‘faults’, but all in all the issues in it are in the past; yes, they happened, but it’s plainly history now."
Not at all. To this day, the Bible is still being analysed, and certain things it got right (i.e. historically) are coming out, and things it got wrong (namely in translation) are coming out, which bring it more into disrepute.
Also, we still have to deal with idiot funadamentalists like the Westbo church, crazy cults like the one run by "Michael" Travesser and the teaching of things like 'the world is six thousand years old/ people walked around with dinosaurs like the Flintstone' etc. As long as these exist te Bible and Christianity will continue to be analysed and criticised.
I would like to apologise for my numerous grammar and spelling mistakes. I was typing very quickly...
I'd have to agree with what eeyop said. While I didn't read all the posts here, I've read the last few.
I have to agree with what he said in 361 about encountering the spirit in worshiping. It is a joy filled experience that is impossible to describe. When the spirit of God descends on a place like that, it reminds me once again of God's awesomeness.
One of the things moonphase seems to forget is that while God is perfect in love, he is also perfect in justice. That is the reason God must punish those who disobay. A good judge wouldn't let a criminal get away, the same way God deals with those who disobey him. According to God's perfect justice, we all deserve hell. From mother Teresa to Osama bin Ladon, we have all fallen short of God's standards. Also, He gave us free will to choose weather to obey him or not. He wants our love, but in order to truly love Him, we must make a choice.
Also, in regards to the horrible things in the world, this is because the world is not perfect how God originally planned it. However, God will make all things right. You seem short cited, thinking that just because something is bad now, that it doesn't have a greater purpose. A human mind can not understand the way God works. One day, justice will be handed down and everything will be made right.
Also, in regards to 363
3: While the serpent tricked Eve into eating the fruit, they still knew what they were doing was wrong, so why shouldn't they be punished?
4: Examening the differences between the offerings, it makes sense that God would be displeased. When Kain killed Abel, the others would want to avenge his death, so in an act of mercy, God made him immune to them wanting him dead. It was an act of undeseved love.
9: The rainbow was a reminder to man that God would never destroy the world like that again.
10: The tower was man attempting to prove they were equal to God. To humble them, God confused their languages showing the difference between man and God, which is better than he could have done which was kill them instantly.
12: Abraham loved God, but beyond that did nothing to deserve God's favor. That's the point though, in God's love, he gave Abraham far more than he deserved. As for sacrificing Issac, this proved that Abraham loved God above all else, even his family. I don't remember the exact quote, but Jesus said in order to follow him, we must hate our family in comparison. Abraham also knew that God could raise Issac from the dead, or find another way to interfere.
Sorry that I missed some things, and for any spelling/grammar mistakes.
>>366 Well, I have only read the first thirty or so pages of Genesis, so I wouldn't know about the stuff beyond that yet. I intend to one day have a commentray of the whole Bible, but that might take some time as I have other things on my mind than reading a book that I don't find all that interesting to begin with.
Anyway, glad to see you agree with me. I'll confess I expected a whole lot of crap about my list from various people, not that it would deter me in any way.
First off, sorry for the double post; I hit reply too quickly. >>369 What I don't understand is, why would you so feverishly worship someone who will never, NEVER be pleased with what you do? Another thing I wonder about is, why does God want us to worship him so much? I'm sorry, but it's just completely dictatorial to act like that. If we believe the Bible, which I don't but for argument's sake let's assume I do, God created the world in all its glory. I understand why we'd be grateful for that, but after the first ten thousand times of saying thank you I imagine it's enough.
If you want obedience, why give us free will? If you're omnipotent, why not make things right immediately? I don't understand the blind dedication some people exhibit in this regard. I hate the argument, 'God moves in mysterious ways.' That, with all due respect, is the answer people give when they have no backing whatsoever of their claims. I believe in more than just this life, but not according to any religion. I believe in a guiding force behind life, but not God. You say God wants our love, but who can truly love one who demands their worship? I would call that a case of Stockholm syndrome at best. Besides, why live a life of abstinence now if the only reward is a life of abstinence after death? If fun is forbidden, sign me up for a chamber in hell.
>>369, "One of the things moonphase seems to forget is that while God is perfect in love, he is also perfect in justice. That is the reason God must punish those who disobay">>>>
I didn't forget. I do not believe that sending people to Hell to burn and remain in torment for all eternity, never one moment of peace, is a 'perfect judgement.' It's evil.
"we have all fallen short of God's standards.">>
Of course, because we are imperfect. God demands impossible things from us. That hardly seems fair.
" He gave us free will to choose weather to obey him or not. He wants our love, but in order to truly love Him, we must make a choice." >>>
It's not really free choice if you get punished for making the 'wrong' decision. It's like a dictator saying 'you don't have to follow my illogical rules. But, if you don't, I'll torture you and then behead you. Make your choice :D"
"You seem short cited, thinking that just because something is bad now, that it doesn't have a greater purpose.">>>>
STILL does not justify why children are raped but Eeyop has a pen.
"3: While the serpent tricked Eve into eating the fruit, they still knew what they were doing was wrong, so why shouldn't they be punished?"
If they already knew right and wrong, what was the point of having a tree that would open their eyes to Good and Evil?
"Abraham also knew that God could raise Issac from the dead, or find another way to interfere." >>> Well that didn't happen for Jepthahs daughter, did it?
"Abraham loved God, but beyond that did nothing to deserve God's favor" Hadn't Abraham given up his home and goods, to wander around in the desert and in foreign lands, for years, because God said so? Not only did he love God but he seemed pretty obediant and faithful to me. Plus, if God can see into the heart of man, why pull a trick like that?
I've been reading the last few comments, it all sounds to me like the religion is something like brain washing. Hitler comes to mind, he was so manipulative that people actually believed what he said, the same goes for what is said in the bible.
>>372 I agree 100% with moonphase.
So it is okay when a let's say a murderer in prison all of the sudden finds God and he gets out because he converted to christianity? Please, give me a break. And what if he kills again, it's Gods will? There is a greater purpose behind the bastard killing an innocent human?
And don't get me started on the cases of the priests here in Belgium who rape innocent children. In your eyes they are Gods messengers, sorry I can't believe in a God who just stands by and let it happen.
I just get so furious of people who are blindly following what a stupid book, sorry if that offends you, is telling them to do. You all say, you are aware of what is going on in the world? In my eyes you don't, if you did you wouldn't be so blind to what is going on around you and say it's Gods will or he has a greater purpose for all the bad things that are happening.
I'm finished ranting
I hope nobody minds if I put in my two cents.
I do believe in God, and that God is still with us in our suffering. There is no answer as to why there is suffering, but I still believe that when we suffer, God suffers with us.
And I don't believe that ANYBODY is "blind to what is happening in the world". Everybody I know is appalled by the priests found guilty of rape, there is no angle to it that makes it even marginally okay!
Not to mention, I believe that most things in The Bible...well, that they didn't actually happen. Like the creation story of Adam and Eve. I believe that most stories were to convey a message, not to tell us how it literally happened. The Bible isn't something to be followed word-for-word.
I find that going to Church, worshiping God...it helps me with my faith. It's thanking God for what God has done, and talking, praying, singing...it helps me and it makes me know that there is something better, something beyond monetary goals and the want of power and pleasure. God helps me know that love is beyond all that, and that having faith in him and believing in him will help me live a happy life.
Okay, that was more like forty-six cents, but you get my point. Thank you all!
>>374 finally a Christian who knows what religions' real purpose is and agrees that:
>"The Bible isn't something to be followed word-for-word."
You are the kind of person that I respect.
you believe in your god because it gives you strength, makes you happy, but you also see beyond your religion, you do not shove your beliefs down my throat, and you dislike the rotten side of church [like the corrupted priests you mentioned]
thank you for your...forty-six cents :D
>>374 If the Gospel of Q is true, then maybe that's the best way to view Christianity.
>>375, well religions 'real' purpose is debatable; for some people in religion (in particular Islam and Christianity) believing and being a good person isn't enough on its own; certain acts have to be abided to and certain works done if you want to please your God properly and go to Heaven (or wherever.)
A more fundamentalist Christian would point out the scripture where Jesus claims he 'never knew' all these people who apparently did things in his name, because they did not do enough, or were hypocrites. Religion is very complex.
>>377 when I say religion I mean ALL religions from the birth of the human, when the first humans worshiped the sun.
most humans had always the need for something bigger than them to them strength. and that was the purpose of religion all alone to make ppl stronger.
islam and christinanity which are very young religions had the same purpose but it is the morph of these religions that makes it debatable.
>>378, oh right, yeah, that makes sense. I would say though, that those religions were really more "common sense" (with the knowledge that they had) than a desire for something to make themselves emotionally stronger; so I suppose the Earth MOther was worshipped because people relied heavily on the crops and seasons. It makes sense in those times that something mus have created the world. I think it was one of the Norse saga's where the writer explains that these people saw that every living thing had a start. The Earth is living, so there must have been some kind of 'Mother' who created this, and keeping her happy equals a happy Earth full of produce. Then the same with worshipping specific bits of nature (the sun, the rivers, etc.) It was practical.
But then, like you say, they began to have gods that helped them become physically strong (or so they thought.) War-like gods began to appear, so we start with the Aesir (the Germanic gods of fertility) which turn into fairies and elves, and are replaced with Nordic Gods like Odin. Sort of like the Beserkers, who practically worshipped the wolves.
The idea of a god who keeps you emotionally or morally strong seems new; but I don't know enough about many of the old religions to say that with absolute certainty.
I suppose it was whatever society needed at the time (I'm thinking the Northern Europeans right now, but I think this goes for nearly every civilisation). So at first it was all about food and having healthy children; then later more emphasis was on battle, as the people began to war and later still, when people are very stressed and anxious die to our chaoctic lives, a god who is forgiving and who gives comfort.
You can see that with the Bible too. In the beginning of the Bible, Yahweh is sort of distant. Then, when Israel began to fight it's neighbours, he became a God of war. When they were destroyed by Babylon and put in slavery, Yahweh became a God of forgiveness, and the idea of a Messiah ad a 'return to Israel' was finalised. Then again int he Greek scriptures, Yahweh is a God of love during Jesus' preaching, and a God of Judgement during the times of Christians being tortured by the Romans.(That's a simplistic over view, granted, but people have written entire books om how God changed to suit the needs of the people.)
>>379 that's so very true
and to add something more
it is the knowledge, education and the kind of life people live now, that makes more and more people to turn atheists or agnostics or non-religious.
because there is a need for people to show off their own strength and not some strength that some god gave them.
[I don't think that makes any sense but I can't write it better than that :facepalm: ]
Religion can be scary and in the wrong hands it can be twisted to suit their cause. I think in this day and age it is up to each individual to use their brains and common sense to find what is right for them. The problem is when people blindly follow the masses, or do something because so and so told them to. Often you find it is young people who are the most impressionable, and are the ones 'brainwashed' into these ideologies. This is evident in small cults and the bigger religions. It is no wonder that so many people are becoming atheist after seeing religion abused in such ways.
Hmm, well, evolutionary wise, maybe the lessening of religion is a natural progression as people don't 'need' god. A pantheon of gods changed to monotheism, so atheism is maybe the final step.
Or, from a religious point of view, maybe it's just following the prophecy that, before armaggeddon, people start turning away from god in droves because they become arrogant and self reliant.
In any case...
>>382
Well the end of Christianity [or the end of the world for them] is when another religion takes the throne ofter them.
as christianity did 2000 years ago. :)
so if it's not atheism it will be probably a new religion.
>>383, Yeah, I was taught that people would turn away from god (atheism, I guess) and then god would step in and take control again (locking up satan and whatnot). Which seems a bit unfair really, to wait until no one belives and then act, when people have been praying for him/her/it for centuries.
I read a few of the comments and there ones I agree to and those I don't. I don't think turning away from God is arrogant or selfish. Nor do I believe that I'm going to hell for being an atheist either.
If the Bible is correct in saying that God loves all his children then he'd love me regardless of me being a non-believer or gay.
That's the problem with the Bible I think, it's suppose to perch the word of the lord. Well I don't think God would be against love of any sort. That's why I stopped believing because of what the church has become. (though got all are like that, I know a few that "bend the rules" a bit)
What I'm trying to say is that if I were to believe in God, I'd believe in him for the reasons everyone loves him; I'd love him, not the church. I'd believe in the hope, not the word. (cause words can be twisted)
I'd believe in the concept, not the religion.
"Christianity has, sadly, focussed more on avoiding sin. But you should love your God, not fear Him."
Saying people do not believe in god because they fear him (I can't remember who said that above) is rediculous! If I don't beleave what have I got to fear? Nothing.
Lets go back to basics... Do animals pray? or beleave in god? No! because they are animals. We are animals, just a differnt species to what is thought of by some people as the less inteligent animals. So does that mean that animals are going to hell? (in my opinion no because there is no hell, no after life, etc etc) No because if they dont need to then never do we, there is no need for people to waste there time doing so.
And I'd just like to point out that eeyop1428 you are proberbly one of the reasons a lot of people dont beleave... preaching! Also in my opinion you don't have an argument as you have no facts, debates work on facts and a (again in my opinion) fictional book just doesn't cut it! (I think of it as mythology).
But I think believeing in god as a way find peace is proberbly a good thing, if it helps that person sort there mind out.
I beleive in gin god:D gin ichimaru!!! seriously i do...Long story
Lady Hyena-chan
I am a Christian (ostensibly a Lutheran, though my views on transubstantiation, at least are notably more generically Protestant).
Since I went to a private school where they actually taught Bible classes, I've found that a frequent point of contention is the pervasiveness of Legalistic thought in many of the more conservative denominations. As humans are incapable of seeing beyond the surface, many otherwise decent followers fall into the trap of judging one's "Christian-ness" by how one acts, leading some to feel superiority over those who are less upright, which directly contradicts St. Paul's instructions to the Ephesians:
'For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh--who are called Uncircumcision by what is called Circumcision made in the flesh by hands--that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.'
[Ephesians 2: 8-12, NKJV]
In other words, since no one can get into Heaven by good works alone, and the only way to salvation is through faith (as going by the assumptions which are at the very core of Christian theology), no one is in any position to boast of their good deeds. And since no one is born a Christian, all are unsaved at some point, and thus it is unjust to persecute one who is unsaved.
Of course, there's the whole thing where those who adhere to different religions (Atheism counts as a religion--just not an organized one--because belief in the nonexistence of deity is still belief) tend to get rather indignant at the implication that their beliefs are either wrong or 'not good enough', which is probably the chief reason why so many otherwise agreeable people tend to go on vehement rants when Christianity is brought up. (Interestingly, the Catholic church, of all things, allegedly makes provisions for those who believe in a Creator deity but not Jesus -- a scriptural interpretation that, if correct, would effectively swell any estimate of the ranks of the saved by several-fold. Of course, it sounds almost too good to be true (because, despite misconceptions, a good Christian doesn't want people to go to Hell, which can evidenced by the sheer effort the Church has historically put into evangelism), which prompts the cynic in me to wonder if this is ever -correct-, let alone theologically sound.
Ah, sorry for forcing you all to listen to me dither and angst about theology and the ultimate destination of people's souls, but I tend to get like this whenever I contemplate religion and related subjects. I tend to worry about things, and I am very prone to stress and anxiety (though I suppose that's natural, considering what my younger brothers are like), and it is very... well, cathartic is the closest I can think of... so yeah, it's very cathartic to be able to put that of thing into words for others.
TTFN, I reckon!
>>338 "(Atheism counts as a religion--just not an organized one--because belief in the nonexistence of deity is still belief)"
Atheism is the lack of belief in any deity.
The lack of belief in something due to their being no evidence isn't a belief system and cannot be counted as a religion.
On average people do not believe in fairies. Why? Because there is no evidence. The non-belief in fairies isn't a belief system and is not in any way a religion.
@388- Actually, here are just some of the reasons people dislike Christianity so strongly:
http://www.evilbible.com/why_i_am_not_a_christian.htm
Also, this list is rather amusing:
I'm a Christian from over on fanfiction.net.
I believe that everything in the Bible is true and actually happened. Because if only certain parts of the Bible are true, how can we trust any of it? All scripture is 'inspired by God', so if we decide to look at it as an allegory or fairy tale, we'd have to take everything as an allegory or fairy tale.
God wants to love everyone, but God hates sin. He loved everyone on earth (us sinners) enough to send his Son to die as a perfect sacrifice that would wipe away the sins of anyone who is willing to repent and follow Him. That's the heart of the thing, and the foundation of what I believe.
I have one comment about hell. An amazing book called "The Singer" has this quotation at the beginning of one of the chapters: "God, can you be merciful and send me off to hell and lock me in forever?" "No, Pilgrim, I will not send you there, but if you chose to go there, I could never lock you out."
I don't know why I'm even bothering to comment on this thread but I feel like I should just get my opinion out. I don't believe in a god, many gods, or any form of divine godlyness, and here is some of my reasoning:
The Egyptians and the Greeks and quite a few more created their own set of gods too explain away event that they couldn't explain scientifically. So, if they very much believed in their gods and the events their gods caused, only for us to learn that it could all be explained with science, who can be sure that the Cristian God is any different? Who's to say that Catholics aren't just using God to explain away so called miracles they otherwise can't comprehend?
Another point-If such a thing as a god exists, than where did it come from? How did it come into existence? Does it simply just..exist? Highly unlikely.
Feel free to try to prove me wrong if you think you can. I'm open to argument here. If you want to try to make me a believer then please, go right ahead.
Another point of why I do not believe in God-If God truly exists and truly created all of human kind, than why would he allow his creations the capacity to believe in anything other than him/herself? Bringing up another point, why do we all assume that God is a Man? Probably because in the time that the theory of a god or higher power came to light, men were considered dominant over women in most of the world, therefore God was assumed to be a Man. There really isn't anything solid to go on when investigating God since it all started before people even thought to document events. How do we know that someone just made God up in order to, I don't know, maybe gain popularity or just to have something of his own passed down.
It's impossible to prove God's existence, but at the same time, it's equally impossible to completely disprove his existence either because it is strictly a matter of opinion and not solid fact.
God is not a man or a woman. He is beyond anything we can comprehend. It's impossible to understand, which can be really very annoying.
Christians believe that God is infinite-he has always existed. Again, impossible for our human minds to comprehend. God is this limitless, incredible being who decided to write this story-the story of History and Earth. He had no beginning and will have no end.
God gave us the ability to choose because if he had just given us one option (the option to love him) our love would be meaningless. It's like making a robot that cannot do anything /but/ love or obey you. When people choose to love and obey God, it means more.
I can't prove God's existence-no one can. But look around. Everything from a supernova to the tiniest cell is so complex and beautiful that there has to be some explanation. And honestly, evolution is just another theory crafted by man so they had an alternative to God as the creator.
>>396 Who says that this guiding intelligence is, per definition, God? That is only the point of view for some religions. What if there is an omnipotent creator, who gives us the freedom to choose whatever we want, and won't ever punish or hate us if we don't decide to love it?
I agree that this universe, even the fundamental constants, display a staggering degree of both beauty and improbability, but that does not mean there is a 'God' in the Christian/Jewish/Muslim view of things. I also don't believe that Earth is the only planet which houses sentient life; that would be illogical if you seek love, like the Intellect (as I call it) does.
Soo...what do people think of that Pastor who's going to burn the Koran?
A muslim woman was abused and forced into marriage because she was a lesbian.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11613992
Thoughts?
Horrible. I don't believe in god, but I have a few friends who are gay and in our class there is this girl who is always like ''god hates gay people!'' I don't judge people who do or don't believe in god but I can't stand people who do judge others because of this. in my opinion abuse an forced marriage because of being a lesbian is something similair to such judging.
Sorry for my (I think) horrible english.
I'm a Christian, and personally think that homosexuality is wrong, but I think targeting it out as the one sin that is worse than all others is wrong. I think those who promote hatred against homosexuality are like the pharisees in Jesus' time, exalting themselves thinking that it is their role to expose the sin in the culture while they are blind to their own.
just out of curiosity, why is it that some christians are against homosexuality? I'm quite curious about that
Maybe because in the bible it says that it is 'immoral' and 'perverted'? But I think the bible has been mistranslated over the years from the original Hebrew to English and other languages, so the words 'immoral' and 'perverted' might have replaced other words for another culture's understanding, but it doesn't have the same meaning anymore. So what may have been something meaning an act against the norm, but not indicating evil, is changed to something meaning an evil action because of the specific words used to describe it in a different language.
I'm a Christian too but I hate the conflict that this subject causes. I have a gay friend and he believes in God, but can't help what he is. It's confusing, and I'm always torn between being his friend or seeing him as a homosexual.
But the bible also says to love thy neighbour and forgive him just as Jesus forgave us, whatever he is or has done. So to be homophobic is wrong and unChristian, and I for one can't stand for it because it hurts so many people. This prejudice will only drive people away from the love of God and make him look unfair because of our actions. So, so what if my friend's gay? He's still my friend and a brother in Christ, and that's what really matters to me.
>>404 I agree about the direct meaning of 'immoral' and 'perverted' regarding homosexuality being lost in translation. I think some Christians are against homosexuality because it is thought of as less 'natural' that than heterosexuality. If two men or two women are sexually involved with each other, in the Catholic church's opinion for instance, this serves little purpose. The Catholic church interprets the Bible's teaching on relationships to mean that the primary purpose of having sex is for procreation- there are of course exceptional circumstances (eg. rape, or when after childbirth, someone in a relationship realises they are not actually straight) but between two men/two women, procreation cannot happen- in order for the couple to have children, another person outside of the relationship would have to be 'used'- this is also against Christianity.
he Bible does preach against homosexulity. Some Christians think these people, unless they abstain and repent, will go to hell.
"Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lusts for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due" - Romans 1:27.
"Neither homosexuals nor sodomites will inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Corinthians 6:9,10).
"the sexually immoral shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone." (Revelation 21:7,8)
However, the whole way the Bible was written is kind of suspect, and there is even the argument that some of the homophobia was added later (http://alison.hine.net/essays/karnan.htm)ou also have to ask yourself what has been translated into the word 'homosexulity'n the Bible considering the word was invented in the Victrian period and the bible is over 2000 years old(http://www.otkenyer.hu/truluck/six_bible_passages.html).
Some are just lunatic, like this guy: http://www.evilbible.com/Retard.htm
I leave you with Stephen Fry http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NL5WVecNdhk
You have to wonder how they translated 'homosexulity' into the ible considering it didn't actually exist as a word until the Victorian period.http://www.otkenyer.hu/truluck/six_bible_passages.html
http://alison.hine.net/essays/karnan.htm
http://www.evilbible.com/Retard.htm
Stephen Fry on the Catholic church and sexulity http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NL5WVecNdhk
Becuase it was funny and relates...
So I was about to purchase a copy of Origin of species by the amazing Dawin. Anyway knowing there would be one there, I had to look at the reviews and guess what? in the 1 star review was the religious nut. So because I thought some of the Against religion comments to this review were very... true! I'll let you look at the link... its very funny...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/review/R3NMNWCZOHPEUK/ref=cm_cr_pr_cmt?ie=UTF8&ASIN=1853267805&nodeID=&tag=&linkCode=#wasThisHelpful
Here is some of the quotes from it... The girl who write the original against darwin review said "To sum Evolution up; it is a fairy tale. Plants don't turn into fish and no scientists, The T-Rex didn't turn into a chicken." The guy in reply said.."Your lying -I had a T Rex chicken from KFC today. Very tasty."
Any yes we know the t-rex didn't turn into a chicken, it was the pterosaur that evolved into a bird as we know them today.
Another quote (from the I don't beleave team): "To reach our full potential, we must keep an open mind. It's the only path to true development. Has anyone ever wondered why the least developed societies in the world today are also the most religious?"
My personal faverate: "Spiderman exists because New York is depicted in the comics. New York exists, so Spiderman exists".
"You show me evidence of God and I will stand corrected.
I show you evidence of no God and you ignore me.
One of us are very naive and easy to control".
This is a very random question that came out of a Supernatural conversation.
I know the bible has something in there about not worshiping false gods/idols (it's one of the commandments, I think?), but does it come out and bluntly say there are no other gods? Does the bible deny their existance altogether or just say it's bad to worship them?
The bible is saying do not worship false gods, as in other things, whether they be objects, people, ideas etc, which take the place of the one God who is supposed to be worshipped above all else. The bible doesn't quite say there are actually other existing gods other than the 'true God' (i.e. Jesus/God in heaven). When it is talking about 'false gods/idols' it's a metaphorical meaning: when you are obsessed over or idolise a certain object/person/idea, for example, money or a celebrity, you turn this into a 'god' figuratively - the thing you worship, what you place high on the pedestal in your life.