It's not the most popular thing, but is anyone else here into turning girl characters into guys & vice versa?
>>11 - I say, you don't have to gender bend to make a fairy tale possible. I mean, I've seen male Cinderellas and Red Riding hoods, so it isn't impossible. If you are having to also make them OoC for it to work, try this idea. Instead of bending the fandom to the story, bend the story to the fandom. It tends to work. :)
I'm not gonna lie, I find it very fun to make some dudes into kickass chicks. But I'll admit that I first got into it because whenever I'd do fan art of Arthur from Inception, I made him into a girl on one picture because I have such a hard time with drawing dudes. It's also very fun to do that in fanfiction. In fact, I'm making some slow progress on this Cobb/girl!Arthur one-shot, so... :3
I like to read gender-bending stories, but in fanfiction I generally prefer there be a basis for it in canon. This is one of the reasons I really like Ranma 1/2 fanfiction.
I haven't written much for gender-bending stories, but that's mostly because I haven't came up with many gender-bending fan-fic ideas that haven't already been done. (The fact that I don't write very often doesn't help either.)
I agree with Chronos Cat, genderbending is better when it's basis is in canon. It irritates me most when people gender bend for the sole purpose of making babies. (Like Vegeta would actually wish himself female just so he could go mate with Goku? -_-)
I like them mostly for the sake of having a character who is all secure with who they are as a man/woman suddenly having to adjust and rethink their thoughts about how the other gender opperates.
>>16 - People do not realize these, the first, are disturbing. The fanfics I want to write, particularly crossdressing ones deal with the second point you make.
>>12 They're meant to be OoC, as the commentary is basically making fun of the more inappropriate parts.
grins I think Gender Bending is a very fun and interesting idea, if done well, of course, and not, as people have said, for the purpose of making a Slash couple not Slash. That's silly. Now, if they're doing it simply to test a "What if?" scenario and actually do it well, then it's pretty cool.
As I was saying though, I really love Gender Bending, not cross-dressing or sudden transformation, but honest-to-goodness "How different would Canon have been if they had been born this gender or they that gender?" I think those are the best kind, especially when the people actually take to time to consider that this character is not just a guy in girl clothes, but an actual girl now, and thus, will have female characteristics and usually a more feminine way of doing things. They will think differently, sit differently, stand differently, walk differently, talk differently, etc. etc. and vice versa. At least, somewhat.
I dislike gender-bending, mostly because I find that the characters personality traits just go flying out the window and it's just as well to make them OCs. I mean most, but not all, personality traits are connected with a persons gender. For example, if Harry Potter had been born a girl, I don't find it likely that he would have gone running after Quirrel for the philosophers stone. I also think that Voldemort would probably have gone after Neville first if Harry was a girl, mostly because I don't think Voldie would have seena girl as big of a threat.
I think gender-bending is a big pet-peeve for me, especially if it's a potion accident or spell gone wrong, and then they suddenly realise they like this new gender and wish to stay that way. I don't think it works like that. I guess it's probably because I regard stories with a reality-enhancing magnifying glass. If it doesn't seem realistic, then I don't read. Changing genders is a hard and emotional time. I guess seeing it in fics freaks me out and seems to be too easy.Although I wouldn't mind reading a transgender!Hary fic...
>>18 - In other words, you're turning them OoC for crackfic kind of? The OoC character flip?
>>19 - I actually like that concept, how they are somewhat different. Some fanfic authors take that somewhat different as completly different. And yet, they also write the same exact darn story. Like what >>20 says.
>>20 - I disagree that it is actually wether we are male or female that people have their personalities defined. I think it is the environment around us and that it is in truth the saying this is a male or female role that effects people to be more masculine or feminate. While there would be some small changes due to gender role, I wouldn't say that Harry being a girl would have prevented him from going after Quirel, as that is not defined by masculine and feminine.
I actually have an HP genderbending fanfic in mind, but I also want to gender bend not just HP, but a good deal of the other characters. I know I'd want to do Ron and Hermione too, but that would mean getting even them new names. Draco would be a definate. I know I want Dudley to stay the same, as for parent characters. I guess too, since I am keeping the parents the same gender, that would mean the Mauraders would also be the same, which made me decide to keep teachers the same along with most adults. Voldomort is going to be different and him being a female is going to change things a bit with him. All of the Weasly kids are going to be flipped. Oh, and I think if Harry was female, one of the big differences would be in how Petunia would treat him. Let's just say, whatever name Harry gets in exchange, Petunia is going to insist on calling him Lily, and not the godawful name that his/her father gave him. And with Dudley being male still, the friction in the Dursley house would also be different. With her calling him Lily, I wonder if Harry should look like his mother, or if just his eyes would do? It's still rough sketch in my mind.
>>21 - Oh, I really like that idea. grins That, I think, is one example of an author not just flipping genders whenever and however they please, but actually taking the time to consider different details and how dynamics would change with gender. That's the kind of gender benders I truly appreciate. Anyway, I have to say that, if you do end up writing it, I would most certainly read it. As for Harry's looks, I suppose that would be up to you, but my personal opinion is that Harry should still, at least, look like Harry, with only the eyes from his/her mother. That's where I think people start going "OC! OC!" instead of just female or male version.
>>22 - That, and he fact that I happen to have so many projects on the table is one of the reasons I haven't started it. But, soon as this month ends, I might just do it. Most female versions of Harry though look just like Harry though, which was one of the reasons I was concidering it. But then, I don't think it is a good idea to change it so that he is like his mother, as we run into the Weasly problem. Actually, I think I'll have Petunia force a hair color change. Research time I guess into what color black would turn into if bleached.
I think gender bending can be fun if its done right.
True, some characters just are meant to be the gender the original creator made them, but I've always liked the 'what if' scenarios. (though some particular characters are just simply not good/interesting/right in the opposite sex's body...)
I like them most when they are funny and less serious, those ones can be very un tasteful and bland I think.
Also, I like it when my OTP is gender bended. It can really shake things up a bit and make them interesting.
(>sorry for bad English<)
>>24 - "though some particular characters are just simply not good/interesting/right in the opposite sex's body..." I like the funny ones, like the one that happens in Happyness!, but I also like serious ones that handle the issue in a nice way, makes one think. Actually, thinking back ,there is a character in Happyness I might write gender bended, simply because it is a guy, crossdressing as a girl all the time. Or, write a fanfic dealing with the issue and why he does it.
no
Gender bending only works if it has basis in Canon, or can be explained using the rules laid out in Canon. End of.
Ranma 1/2 uses Jusenkyo, which user magic. Harry Potter can use magic also, but must be explained properly. An exception in Potter is Nymphadora Tonks as a shapeshifter.
Gender bending needs reason and explanation to work. Don't gender bend because you think it'll be fun. Set it up and execute well.
>>27 - Now that is mentioned, how do you explain genderbending in LotR? I don't think you can, just like you can't explain mpreg there either. Of course, crossdressing is completly a different matter.
>>27 - Not everyone wants it to be a sudden or random change in the original series. Like I've mentioned before, I much prefer the "What if?" scenario idea, where the Canon is actually changed. In that case, there is no reason for an explanation other than it is an alternate universe of sorts in which the character or characters had been born that opposite gender instead of their original one.
I do agree with you that gender bending should be set up and executed well. I think that's what makes the best gender bender fics; the ones that you can actually kinda believe in and go, "Hey, that really could have happened."
However, I do believe that it's not necessarily wrong to do it for fun. I mean, I most certainly love some thought put into it, but I can still grin at an amusing Gender Bender story or picture that is done for fun. It's just not what I prefer. That is, of course, my opinion.
>>29 - I think I much prefer the random pictures then the actual random stories. Unless someone is going for funny on that. I mean, I read a fanfic where Toshiro from Bleach suddenly became a girl and was ... not himself. It was just... so badily written, it wasn't funny.
>>30 - I know what you mean. I actually meant the ones where they intentionally mean it to be funny, not the crap stuff cluttering up Fanfiction.net.
>>31 - Sometimes... I never know...
I think it's fun to do. Never really understood why people could get upset with it. Like I said, it's just something I like to do for fun every now and again.
>>33 - One of the Anime I happen to like, Happiness! has both crossdressing and gender bending. I love the character who happens to have this happen to them. They are just that likable of a character.
Some might say that the people who talk against it are radicals, like radical Christians, but I think the truth of the matter is, it comes from the fact that a good deal of the stuff I've come across is just tasteless.
I mean, most genderbending anime and crossdressing anime tend to run along the lines of being ecchi on top of that and the same goes for the fanfiction that is involved. And do you know how many young writers write it for lols?
I have personally not ever found a genderbending fanfic that I like as well as the story I found in Happyness, or crossdressing either. Now that I think about it OoCness is involved. There is no trace of the original character left.
I've never really liked gender bending. First of all, pretty much all gender bending (as a storyline, instead of just as gag) happens in Shoujo, which I already dislike. But, then the gender bend usually just feels gimicky. Like, "Oh! This guy I like is going to an all-boy school! Gasp! My whole life will end if I don't stalk him creepily, while dressed as a boy, and making him question his own sexuality. Let's do that." Not only is that premise strange, unlikely, and unethical in a lot of ways, it's the premise of almost every gender bend story I've read.
The reason for the gender bend is always far fetched and just causes unnecessary problems for everyone. (In case you haven't noticed, I'm aiming this at the female -> male gender bending, mostly. Somehow, male -> female usually ends up being funny and a little disturbingly sexy). :D
i would read a het gender bending fic if it is humorous. ranma 1/2 is a classic example of how humorous it can be.
Don't mind crossdressing stories if tastefully done. But really dislike gender bending ones. It's like the authors can't accept the idea of same gender love, but still want to jump on that popular bandwagon... Shows lack of maturity and prejudice. Often happens in Naruto fandom for SasuNaru or NaruSasu stories. And I am yet to find a well-written one.
>>38 Not ALL gender bending stories are written to make a same gender pairing hetero.
i would be interested in reading a genderbender if it had both parties change the gender I think that i saw a SasuNaru story where they both are girls and i wouldn't mind reading that but because i am not a fan of hetero pairings i dislike genderbender for the most part.
>>39 Then what IS the purpose of it if not to make a pairing hetero? 'Cause anything else can be done with both characters male or female without gender bending.
>>41 It's for the same reason people write Alternate Timlines, Alternate Universes, etc. It's a "What if?" scenario. Someone's curious how things would have changed, how different things would have been if genders had been altered because dynamics change with gender. It's not going to be exactly the same because men are not the same as women --they do not react the same way, act the same way, talk the same way-- and women are not the same as men. Men and women even walk differently and hold their selves differently. They interact with each other differently. To alter the genders can create a whole new chain set of events. As I said, dynamics change. It creates an interesting and new twist to former relationships to see them altered.
Of course, I am not saying that there aren't many fanfics that abuse gender bending for the purpose of making their pairing hetero, but that's not always the case and those aren't the ONLY gender bender fics out there. Have you never seen a fanfic where they alter both members of the pairing, whether they be same gender or hetero? Or even just a fanfic where there's no pairings or the pairing is an afterthought where the person simply is curious about the "What if?" situation I mentioned?
>>42 Seen very, very few gender-bending stories that had no hetero-pairings And they were also badly written. I noticed that really good authors don't go there. And for good reason too.
I do not think that making a character completely OOC by making them "act differently and hold themselves differently" 'cause they now have female organs instead of male (or vice versa) will make them interesting. I like characters the way they are - canon.
And I am still sure that gender-bending is mostly done to make "hetero" out of "homo", sorry. Perhaps not just because of prejudice. By the writing style of the majority of those stories I would say they are written by kids who have no idea how to handle a male/male pairing.
>>43 Gender Benders CAN be well done and not for the reason you insist it is solely for. I am not arguing that many people seem to, unfortunately, use it in that way. I suppose that is what has lead Gender Bending to not be very popular, as most people probably expect that's all it is.
However, the majority does not speak for the whole. I have actually read decent fics where a member of a former male/male pair becomes female. Perhaps those were the few people actually doing it for the interesting "What if?" scenario and not for the "Ah! Homo! Must change!"
(I'm going to admit, though, that my idea of Gender Bending is not a Pairing Gender Benderj it's a general Gender Bender, where more than one person is changed, usually making for a very interesting alternate universe and time line.)
I must ask though, based on your comment: You've never been curious about a "What if?" scenario? Like an alternate time line or such? You've never been curious or wondered how things could have turned out if this had been different or that had been different?
Gender Bending, for me, at least, is the same common principle.
But if not, then I guess you like what you like. Not much else I can say in that case, I guess.
>>38 - As >>39 said, not all of them are done for that reason, but we end up with a good deal of them that are that way.
>>41 - A what if situation, simple enough. there are plenty of HP fanfics that write the story with the simple idea of what if Harry were a girl. Of course, most fail, some because it is for making slash pairings het, but others simply because they don't make it their own, or they take too much of the original away. They are in no way easy to write.
>>43 - Also, just because you haven't seen very many gender-bending stories that aren't well written, doesn't mean they aren't out there. Can I name one off the top of my head. No, but then I don't go out of my way looking for them. The reason reason that most good authors don't go there isn't because it is a bad idea, but because it is a complex idea and one of the harder types of fanfics to write, so they don't jump in over their head.
I have to agree with what >>44 said. "However, the majority does not speak for the whole." For example, just because Twilight is not a well written book and most fanfic writers reflect that, does it in fact mean that all Twilight fanfics are badily written.
>>44 - I have an actual simular idea as you do of Gender Bending, either more then one person is changed, or it is temporary. (Like Happyness!)
>>45 - grins Thank you.
I've always been a fan of "What if?" scenarios and ideas. It's not that I don't like or love the Canon, but it's because I love the original so much that I become interested in the idea of this "What if?" Gender Bending just happens to be one of my favorites.
:D I really like the "What if these people had been born the opposite gender?" best. I'm usually not as fond of the one person change. The "sudden-change" ones can also be fun and interesting reads.
>>47 - Blink. Wow, that was just... incredible. A wonderful example of Gender Bending done well.
Exactly. There is a very thin line to walk when writing a Gender Bender story. I would know. I'm currently working on one of my own for Naruto where several of the genders are altered. It is unposted so far, but I have some slips of writing from the universe itself. It is incredible how the dynamics of the relationships and such change with the alteration of gender. It's as interesting and fun to explore as it is challenging.
>>49 - Crum... that was me. I had to reset my net.
There are two kind of gender bending:
a)The character is born of a different gender
b)The character's gender is altered at some point in his life
I think it's fun, for whatever reasons (even 'unslashing' a slash pairing or making it possible for them to have a baby)!
For a), I don't think it change their personnality from the start because your personnality is tied to your gender but because of PEOPLE'S reaction to gender. You aren't going to beat up a girl because you feel like it and you aren't going to flirt with a girl (who was originally a boy) when you're a straight girl yourself. So it not only change the character throught people different reactions to them in their formative years but it also change their relashionship to other characters.
For b) it shouldn't change their personnality but I think that, once again, people reaction to the character's change of gender and their reaction to this gender may make the character evoluates differently then he/she would have. I also like for character to stay girly/boyish when they are changed to boy/girl and see how they cope up with their new body.
If done right, I think it's actually very hard to explore all the ramifications.
I like it! :D
Except in one case, I don't like gender beding. I never see the point, especially if it romance. I just think 'just make them gay or whatever.' I never see the purpose.
I have read one story where it has been done well, but that's it. All the others have been ooc and just an excuse to pair favourite (looking) characters, without making it slash.
>>53 - I've never gotten that either. The ones I like tend to be more along the lines of humor fics, but I can't remember any of them. Most of those though, have bad humor.
When you talk of "genderswaps" or "genderbending", what actually tends to be happening?
Personally, the way I understand gender is as a socially constructed set of behaviours which we are taught to internalise from a young age; conversely, the "character x is transformed by y method" into the opposite of what they were originally is, more often than not, swapping the biological 'equipment'. But what are your views on this? Are the common form of "genderbends", where a woman is turned into a man or vice versa, really that, or would they be more aptly described as "sex-swaps"?
>>55 - We're not talking about the real life definition "genderbending", but the literary term "genderbending".
>>55 - We're not talking about the real life definition "genderbending", but the literary term "genderbending".
The only time I accept gender bending is with Haku from Naruto... A boy does NOT look that much like a girl.
Well, mostly used when people want to avoid either the het or the yaoi side but like that particular couple.
I haven't really found any succesfull stories with gender bending in it. Generally I only accept gender bending if it's vital to the story (not in the case of not wanting to write het or yaoi) and when it's well explained.
Such as, in an AU the person could have been born with a different gender.
But if they follow the canon timeline and want to swap then I find it only acceptable if something really happens that explains it (such as, a scientific experiment).
I've once read a story where the main protagonist had to cross dress the whole time during the war(there was a valid argument for having had to), but afterwards she didn't need to anymore and she reveiled she was a woman. I didn't really like the story since the protagonist became way out of character but the explanation of the gender swap was done well I think.
>>60 - The story I liked that featured genderbending wasn't a fanfic, but the OVA for the Happiness! Anime. It was a one-shot and fit with the characters and was good crack fic material without being disgusting.
Too many Harry!female fanfics just toss us the idea that Harry is a female. I've seen a few were the female is definitly a self-insert of the author.