i really don't know what to think about this. some writers just go waaaayyy over the top, but maybe in the right circumstances but still its just really unnerving. i would only ever use it in my stories if it stopped before any irrevocable damage was done but i guess then that wouldn't be called rape...
I'm not too keen, to be honest. There was this one story, 'Inertia Creeps' (an AkuRoku), and in that one of the characters had been subjected to rape in his past. However, the author never actually wrote a rape scene, yet still managed to get across all the emotions a person suffers through. Any other story, though, it seems rape is used solely as a way for whatever pairing it is to get there faster, and it's always, in my experience, ridiculously explicit. It's such a sensitive topic, but it rarely is treated as such. You're completely right that some writers just go too far with it. I have nothing against people including rape in their story, but they have to do it with some semblance of tact.
I've written what is technically rape (I mean Christ, if youre not agreeing to it and it's causing you a crap tonne of pain then yeah, right?)
I enjoyed writing it since it's just another aspect of human nature. It can be well-written but othertimes just...nah.
Rape is an extremely sensitive subject, and should be used with tact, discretion, and a whooole lot of research, or not at all. It's very easy indeed to get wrong or trivialise.
You can use it in your stories, just like you can use pretty much every unpleasantness out there, but I would advise caution.
'Ow! No! Stop! It hurts!'
But it was too late. The woman lay in a pool of her own blood, wrists and ankles still tied to the thick metal rings protruding from the floor. A tear ran down her cheek. Her rapist laughed.
'Bwahahaha! Now I'll show you what a REAL man is!' He suddenly attacked her with a length of lead piping.
'Aaaargh!' she screamed. Then, more quietly, '... Why... ?'
...
... Why, indeed.
I think if it's written well, then theres nothing wrong with including it...but the one thing that authors get wrong...and I'm sure this has been covered in another thread - but it's the after effects of the rape.
I know someone who was nearly raped. Not actually raped, she was lucky that a car drove past and scared him off, but 4/5 years on, if a guy even touches her without her expecting it, she gets really twitchy and nervous about it.
She can go further with a guy, but it takes a lot for her to even considor it, and she has to really trust the person (hence I hate the guy who screwed her over emotionally just recently)...
But people who write it, and then the character just gets over it.
THAT is my problem with rape in fiction.
You do need to be sensitive with it and you may not even have to write the actual scene... but a lot of writers just make the scene and then leave it without having any depth behind how the character felt.
As RayRay said, nobody really focuses on the after effects and only concentrates on the rape and not the feelings.
It is a big impact on someone's life for that to happen and you never really get the feeling for it.
Don't get me wrong some people mangae to convey the feelings amazingly but others just leave them out completely.
So... I think you should only really write about rape in fanfiction if you really understand the consequences and how someone feels after it.
>>6 & >>7
I agree with you two.
there was that story were Michiru [a lesbian] was raped by a man, and the next day she slept with her long term girlfriend Haruka and get over it immediately.
and it is not only the emotional part that was forgotten but also the physical part.
for a vagina that hasn't been penetrated by a man's part before, and when it does is vicious, the woman can not have sex for at least few days[maybe more] due to the major pain, and the damage of the area. it is all about anatomy and if someone who wants to write about rape doesn't have a clue what is going on the victim's mind a body afterwords they simply have to google it it's as simple as that. internet is your friend :)
Well, as an author who's primary work is a hurt/comfort dealing with graphic rape, I'll jump in here.
I agree with most of what everyone here has said actually. Too many rape fics have people falling in love with their rapists (and while Stockholm Syndrome can set in if they're constantly tortured - both psychologically and physically - it's incredibly unlikely).
The first two chapters of my fic detail the sordid, disgusting details of what happens in real rape, with all the horror that entails. The next eighteen deal with how that character deals with his REAL LIFE afterwards (and the first full sex scene isn't until chapter 14). The rape isn't one of the weird non-con kink fics (though I'm sure some will disagree with me). I hope to really send chills down people's spine with what happens to the character.
Why I wrote it? Partly it was just a writing exercise to begin with (then I had 21,000 words and it wasn't a writing exercise anymore XD) but when I got reviews from people who had been assaulted saying that I dealt with the issues as they happen in real life, I didn't feel so bad for pursuing the plot in the way I had.
Hope that explains a 'non-conners' view on rape in fanfic.
I used rape in one of my fanfictions but i didnt go into content i kept it fade to black and did include after effects to the character's personality. It was a primary point in the plot to put certain events into action and bring across how truely twisted the her attacker was.
I think rape shouldnt be treated likely but if done right it can be okay in fiction, everyone reacts differently but they will not be completely fine after something like that, sometimes people get over it after a while; i know someone who was and got over it after a while but she still remembers and it makes her hellalot angry.
Either way though, it's going to have some effect on your mental health - like you said, Nadine, your friend gets angry.
I'm not of the opinion that any character or person who gets raped should deal with it by breaking down and sobbing all the time, and becoming a recluse - as long as there is some reaction - some development in it.
Conversely, I actually have a friend who was raped, and managed to fight the bastard off. But the first night, she was a wreck, she went to the police, and called me the next day to come and stay with her because she didn't want to sleep alone so soon afterwards. She got over it relatively quickly, but she never liked talking about it after that first night when she told me what had happened.
I've been assaulted before, nothing major, but it's frightening, and I was lucky that someone intercepted and let me get away - the person was disabled and I know he wasn't aware of what he was doing in the same way healthy people are, but it scared me - I was only 12 at the time and having some guy grab your ass and try to grope you is frightening.
I still can't really go near any males with that particular disability, my heartrate picks up and I get really nervous. It doesn't affect my day to day life, it never has, but on a personal level its really done some damage...
My point - that everyone has a reaction, and everyone will want to stay away from sex for a while, even just a few days...you can't just forget about things like that.
I think writing rape is to be treated with care, and shouldn't be treated like "okaii, how he can go rescue her from da alleyway, and then hot lemon!!!", but can make some amazing fanfics, emotion-wise, character-wise.
I get that people react differently to it, (I've been assaulted, same, except this dude was simply a pervert) but I doubt any girls immediately want some guy they crush on to "make them clean" hours later. It's pretty insensitive.
Something that hasn't been brought up yet is the fact that some writers seem to find rape erotic, and therefore get sexual pleasure from writing bizarre, overdramatic rape scenes in which the victim is beaten with a brick or suchlike, then gang-raped, then molested by the officer who she calls for aid. At this point, the victim makes a break for it (generally in her underwear/tatters of clothing, and always in the pouring rain), only to collapse of exhaustion. She is then rescued by the love-interest, and everything comes up roses until the love-interest decides it's time to go a'rapin' too (about three weeks later, tops). He then hits her with an iron mace to stop her from resisting. Lather, rinse, repeat.
If you write fics like this, please carry on; the world needs more comedy, and your badfic makes the goodfic look better. Bonus points if spelling and grammar are a mystery to you.
I've seen a lot of rape fics. One had a young boy being raped a multitude of times, by someone he was in love with. Then said love interest realises the boy's feelings, feels bad and stuff, then has sex with him.
>.>
The fact that the boy would have been emotionally devastated not to metion seriously injured and in need of medical treatment was compleltly ignored. I think it was meant to be erotic and with a romantic finish. All I kept thinking was of all the rape victims out there...
I can't imagine how disgusting it must be for them...
The problem is that those who have not even been in a situation sexually at all, generally are the ones writing these fics. A lot of people in fandom write without having done.
Not saying I'm going around a-raping or something, but I'm just pointing out that the majority of these badfic rapes are done by writers who are probably completely unaware of the psychological aspects of sex of ANY kind, never mind rape.
>16
Uhm..you don't need any sexual experience to write sex..you are aware of that right?
Research generally can come out better than experience itself when writing.
...
AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Oh, WOW.
I love this site. Pure comedy. Thanks, Francys.
@Iaculus- Ah, but badrapefic has not the distraction of the underlying objectivist ideology...
... > Oh you're back. Good to see you again. Now kindly go back to the hole you crawled out of again.
Personally don't see what was so laughable about my statement.
This just gets better and better! (Although how could you crush me so? Your words, like knives, the pain, the pain, OW!)
Bored now. Go away ^_^.
First-hand experience usually trumps second-hand information from subjective and possibly unreliable sources - at the very least, it gives you a good way to contextualise what you've heard. Most media of communication can only convey so much. Compare assembly instructions for a cabinet with actually putting it together, for instance - the former have a habit of leaving important little bits out that you need to figure out for yourself.
Now, first-hand experience can only take you so far - you don't want it at either end of a rape, for a start - but there's not much that can beat knowledge of the periphera... i.e., sex.
>>15 Ah, yes, the solution to ghastly mental trauma caused by nonconsensual sex - MORE SEX. A saying about hammers and nails comes to mind...
>>18 On the other hand, Objectivism has the distraction of the underlying rapist ideology, so I suppose it balances out.
Iaculus.
Did you just compare assembling a cabinet to sex? O_o
I'm perfectly aware of media of communication and how unreliable it can be from being a critical thinking student.
First-hand can trump it. But to be honest, it can also depend on a persons writing skills. You can be the most experienced person in the world in that field. And still write REALLY bad sex scenes.
Writing talent's not a variable here, though. The debate was first-hand versus second-hand, so the assumption is that both writers are of equal talent.
On the other hand, if you're writing about sex but you've never experienced it, you're doomed before you begin.
@Iaculus- Touché!
...: Uhm...not really since I was writing it long before I had experienced it. And considering the amount of people I've had go "Wow, nicely written", I don't consider you reliable.
Assumption, yes. But you are allowed to introduce other variables to back up a claim.
@Francys- Having read a couple of your earlier fics, I am inclined to disagree with those reviewers. I can't tell you if this is affected by your sexual experience, writing skill ('hazel orbs'), or both. What I can say is that as our opinions on said writing differ, your argument carries no weight with me. Find me good sexfics by virgins (plural, as I daresay there's an exception somewhere), and I'll be less skeptical.
>>27 second that, my experience with sex is close to zero, and I had only a male partner to introduce me into the world of sex, though I do write Yuri[lesbian couple] lemons and I do get good review about them.
...> Wow, so you can critique how I write a description of someones eyes, but not the actual sex? Still not putting up a good argument are we?
Also. Earlier fics? My 'earlier' fics aren't on there because I really don't have things up from 4+ years ago.
And how can I find a good sexfic by a virgin when I can really see no one actually admitting to that at the time of writing. It's damn rude and intrusive to ask regardless!
A tad off-topic, aren't we? xD Have to agree with Iaculus and '...' though. Nothing beats first hand experience. You can research all you want, but there's stuff you just can't know until you've actually experienced it yourself.
And I think it would crack me up if someone asked me after reading something of mine whether I was a virgin or not. Would find that a tad bit invasive. Damn funny though.
Why, if the writing is so good, is it not up there? Also, the sex in the ones I read was downright embarrassing. I have already stated that I do not know whether this was to do with your writing style or experience, so I don't know whether you meant to express things differently but hadn't the skill, or had more skill than your imagination allowed you to utilise. Either way, I had to mention 'hazel orbs' because I actually laughed out loud on reading it.
Tell you what. Describe a pot-plant for me. Do this however you wish.
And I will say it again: I have yet to read good sexfic by someone with little/no experience of sex.
I have an answer for you for it not being up there: 4+ years ago I had a different computer and portable harddrives were not second nature so I couldn't save them when the motherboard died. I did stumble across one a few days ago on paper in my room, but theres not much point in persuing a fandom you're no longer interested in (In this case being Bleach).
I find it funny that youre so quick to pretty much call what I write tat, yet you have no work of your own, let alone a username to attach it to.
Describe a plant-pot? Please, go ahead and do that for me since you're the 'expert'.
Anyway. I feel bad for derailing this topic. Back to the nitty gritty.
Funny... I'm sure I've said this before...
Ahem!
I visit other forums that do not approve of members trolling etc. As I troll this board from time to time, I do not use my regular ff.net username, or link to my work. The other reason is that it gives me the freedom to say exactly what I think, instead of masking it with false niceties and then having a good laugh about people's writing behind their backs, but I do not need to worry about this making the other sites I frequent look bad or elitist. These are my posts, as an individual, and, as I can guarantee that that will be too much for some to grasp, I keep my identities separate.
Implying that my writing is poor =/= you can write good erotica, btw. I have never claimed to be an expert, though I am flattered that you think of me as such!
And deary me, I believe I requested a description of a pot-plant. Not a plant-pot. You show me yours, and I'll show you mine, as the saying goes.
Last I checked, it was not necessary to demonstrate one's own writing talent in order to critique a story. Otherwise, a lot of very respected critics would be out of jobs.
I, for instance, consider My Immortal to be utter crap. Do I need to have written my own Harry Potter shipping fic in order to do that? Hell, no. The only purpose for that talent is if your mission is to do it better.
...: Oh so you're finally admitting you're trolling? Real mature.
The reason you don't use your ff.net user is obvious. You're afraid of the responses you'll get. At least I have the guts to post my stuff regardless of how 'embarrassing' it may be.
You on the other hand are posting needless banter going "Oh your stuff is lame." and not actually showing any examples of your own work for us to go "Oh hang on a moment here, you're saying this, what about your stuff?"
Could be utter tripe or utter gold for all we know. Though judging by you not posting it, I think i'll play it say with the foremost option.
pot-plant? Funny, go back up and read. You clearly said 'Plant-pot'. Or is such a skill as the ability to read so farfetched you cannot even manage that?
Oh and funny when I mention it, it gets changed within 5 minutes. Now what happened to the good old print-screen button should this ever happen again.
Now. I'll say it again for the...well..I've lost count, time.
Back to the goddamned topic at hand!
... You know, I'm pretty sure this place doesn't have an 'edit post' feature. I've bitched about it often enough in the past.
Think you're just being paranoid there, Francys.
'Finally'? My dear, I've always been open about my trolling status and lack of maturity. Hmm... OHHH, I get it now. You're relatively new to the site, I believe. Don't worry; I think we'll get to know each other better as time marches on! I look forward to it, don't you? And, er, no, I think I know why I don't link to my own fic. I believe I said. Read. Assimilate. Learn. If I was 'afraid' of people damning me, do you really think I would post this way?
And it definitely says pot-plant...
um this disscussiion is ment to be aout the use of Rape not sex in fics there is a different one about sex, look it up
Try and get out of it all you want. Make the excuses of why you don't post it. It just makes you look all the more a coward with a "I AM BETTER THAN THOU!" attitude. Since that's all you're coming across to me as.
If I must be honest. it's getting rather boring now bartering with you, you remind me of someone that I used to know and happily got rid of because of all the reasons stated above.
You think I'll get to 'know' you? Please, you're no more than a blip on my screen that I'm tired of.
Firelilly: I do apologise. I have tried to get Mr. ... over there to go back to the topic, but it doesn't seem to work with forums.
The quickest way to get back on-topic, of course, is to post something on-topic.
So, raping. For? Against? Which holes? Are holes necessary? Fade to black, Y/N?
On the last point... I'd say that there are very few, if any, cases where we actually need to see the rape taking place in any particular detail. Otherwise, it starts to look disturbingly fetishistic.
@Francys- 'bartering?' BANTERING!
'got rid of'? Ooh, have we a murderer in our midst? Most excellent!
If someone has something on-topic to post, then they should post it. If not, don't use 'get on topic' as a weak method to get someone to stop saying things you don't want to hear.
@Iaculus- Post while I'm posting, why don't you...
I'd say that that depends on the genre. If you're seeking to horrify and address primal fears, more detail may be suitable.
Not necessarily. I mean, for all his flaws, Lovecraft did a great job with both without employing too much detail.
Often, the reader's imagination is your greatest ally.
Iaculus: I don't think the whole 'which hole' thing needs to be stated, so long as you've got the picture in mind while writing it. Fade to black can leave for some interesting conclusions because it can leave it open to the imagination of the reader. Though sometimes clarification can come out good aswell provided it's tastefully done (as tasteful as writing about rape can get, seriously).
P.S Bartering. Meaning 'To trade". Meaning I'm bored of trading comments with you. Now shut up unless you have something to contribute.
@13 (yesh, a little while back, sorry) you said some writers find it arousing. I haven't actually stumbled on that many OC stories with the victim getting raped (well, actually, a few and didn't think much of them) is it possible they are self-inserts? That would explain the odd "fetish's" with their favorite characters.
Though, most I've seen involve a favorite pair, so kind of just matching their most want-to-be-shagging characters.
I think I'm agreeing with Iaculus (45), little description is possibly just as effective /or more than lots.
@Francys- It doesn't say 'bartering comments', it says 'bartering'. Your sentence does not, therefore, say, 'I am bored of trading comments with you' but, 'I am bored of trading with you'. Quite a difference.
@Iaculus- I'd say it's true that the key isn't in what you put in, but what you omit. The question is where you draw the line. For example: 'Rape' or 'Rape involving power tools' or 'He got the drill and...'
@50- They're don't neccessarily have to be OCs. Any writer who describes a rape in overly graphic detail for no good reason should be suspected of this.
Yeah, the 'which hole' thing wasn't exactly intended to be taken as a serious question, much as I doubt that many folks on this board are exactly pro-rape.
I'd say that 'bantering' is still more appropriate - 'bartering' has more of a feel of haggling and wrestling over the rate of exchange, and whilst wrangling over the relative value of insults is an amusing notion, it's probably not what you meant.
"So, hey, if you call me a talentless hack, I'll call you a money-grubbing whore. Deal?"
"Nah, too pricey. How's about you throw in 'self-fellating degenerate'?"
"'Self-fellating degenerate'? Are you trying to bankrupt my vocabulary here? At least give me the satisfaction of having my body odour disapprovingly judged, hmm?"
"Fine, fine, have it your way. Money-grubbing whore."
"Talentless hack."
"Fish-reeking sleazebag."
"Self-fellating degenerate."
"Pleasure doing business with you."
"Likewise."
Oh, Iaccy, Iaccy, Iaccy that maketh the sun shine down from the heavens and light our world;
Iaccy, thou art truly an artisan of the highest order,
Despite thy lack of faith in orders,
Or indeed the heavens themselves!
How dost thou not believe,
When thou art as Ra was to the Pharoes of old
And townsfolk alike?
Iaccy,
Know this,
All our base are belongeth to thee.
... Although I could have done without that 'random dude self-fellating' mental image.
I Lol'd so much at this board I swear.
Francys...I hate to be the one to say it, but you have to admit, that for a troll "..." is actually pretty good. (S)he, doesn't just come out with horrible comments like one I could mention a while back, though for all I know they're the same person, but is actually pretty good at finding a point and arguing it - so really.
If you don't like it, just stop frigging arguing with them! It's easy!
I just had to state that, and seriously, some good points raised about the sex issue, though you know...kinda off topic, so I'm not getting into that again.
Back on topic anyone?
thanks Francys Pai
as far as i know the fics with rape scenes in it turan out to be really bad stories not worth reading but when there is a the threat of rape or an escape it can reall make a story i'm sorry to say for example in "Thousandfurs" where her father wants to rape her but she escapes to a places that is also reallr dangerous and again this is the threat of rape
@Rayray- Bows and tips hat
@56- I agree that the threat of rape can be used to build tension, as long as, again, it isn't overblown. It's a fine line to walk. I, personally, prefer fics that don't spell that kind of threat out, but hint at it instead. That said, ymmv.
totally agree
The threat of rape can often be more terrifying than an actually rape scene...if it's well written of course.
Like anything though, it depends on the literary tools that the author uses. It's really one of those instances where the wrong metaphor can just completely blow the entire scene to pieces. If it's too simple, you're left thinking 'well was that supposed to scare me, or what?'
Conversely, if they try to hard, you're just left with the feeling that's it is exactly that - just way too much, way too forced.
I don't think I would attempt it. I can handle beatings and abuse, but rape. Not something I'm likely to try.
@Rayray- That last paragraph would be very odd if taken out of context...
Actually, make that the last two paragraphs.
Oh, come ON!
Rape in fanfiction can be ugly or it can be good.
Personally, I am not into it a whole lot, but I have written threat or close to it, where it was situational and the victim makes it out (not unscathed), but I don't think I could ever get down and dirty with it.
I find the overly done or underly done a turn off, but the threat is fine. Everyone needs some drama!
Oh, a Freudian slip! I thought you were referring to my having phallocentric thought-patterns, or somesuch...
You are forgiven.
Well let me correct myself. I don't think I would attempt to write it. However I think its moot, as I was talking about writing it in the first place.
I don't fancy myself as a rapist really, I must admit.
@Rayray- Or is that just what you WANT us to think...?
@...
Well I suppose that could be the whole plan, secretely I'm a mastermind of the highest calibre - planning world domination through the pillaging and raping of entire villages and countries.
Yeah. That's the whole truth.
I wish there was a sarcasm button on this forum...
@Rayray- Don't worry; drawing attention to obvious sarcasm kills it. I am not one of the people who needs such a button, as I can detect the stuff. Generally.
That's half the fun of posting on this site.
Ignoring the trolling, I still disagree with Frances, but that is mostly based not on her fiction, which I have never read, but on the vast majority of the fandoms I've been in having the trend towards what I pointed out.
Virgins often DON'T know all there is to know about sex. Just as non-rape victims don't understand the mentality of someone who has been raped (and before you ask, yes, I've been assaulted, yes I wrote rape fic, no, I don't want to say any more than that about it all). Of course, people CAN imagine the futility, the rage, the hate, the disgust, that a rape victim feels, but as for the writing sex without having done it... Meh, it never feels right to me.
After all normal sex (not non-con) is silly and absurd, and rarely as romantic or hot as in fiction. The scenes that are best capture some of that feeling.
just to clarify, when people say virgins do not write good sex scenes, is that due to a lack of knowledge of how sex works physically, or because the feelings are written incorrectly?
...I'm just thinking because some ff writers write good homosexual sex scenes without being homosexual themselves (but then I'm not gay, so maybe I just never realised they were wrong...) and some rape fics are very good (not just weird, fetishy porn) but they have not necessarily been raped... So should virgins and people who hae not experienced that kind of sex avoid writing it all togther? Or is it more to do with maybe younger (perhaps more childish) writers writing fics that are unrealistic due to character reactions to sex or rape?
@Hikari- Haven't trolled this thread... yet. As for my argument, you've misconstrued it- Francys used 'some people like my fic' as a point, I used, 'I don't' as a counter to that particular point. My argument was not 'I do not think much of this writer's work, ergo all sexfic by virgins is poor'. They're two separate points.
@Moonphase- I'd say it's a mix of the two. Say you want to write about being in a devastating carcrash, but have never been in a carcrash. You can research carcrashes, and interview people who have experienced them, but unless you write sparing (dare I say it, beige) prose, you are likely to make a fool of yourself by writing something mind-numbingly stupid, or just plain old inaccurate. The difference between a carcrash and sex in fanfic is that sex is an experience common to many readers, so you can't bluff without someone calling you out on it. With yaoi, the audience is mainly female- so they won't necessarily know if you err. The best yaoi writers will know (or be!) gay men...
... and these men will read through and check said yaoi. Or, at the very least, they will talk extensively about gay sex with the writer.
Because it is obvious when this has not happened.
maybe your right but sometimes i think that the fantasy of sex is better than the reality. in reality sex can just be all fumbling paws and crushing lips but in fantasy you can free your imagination of what the pinical of expression of love can feel like. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyways mights have said too much there
different Question- how much threat of rape is too much and how much is just pathetically unthreatening and not frightening?
Sorry to advertise but if any of you want to lok at my fic and say whether it is a pathetic attempt and the treat of rape... i would value your comments. it was origginally writen apart from the animes so don't worry about not understanding...
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4272930/1/In_the_distance
Hm... You must be quite new around here, too... So I'll be brief.
I take it you were referring to the section in chapter two (it would have been clearer if you'd linked to that chapter, btw; at first I wondered if the tree was a bizarre metaphor). So. The first things that struck me were grammatical errors- get a beta. If you had one for that fic, fire them and get a better one. Next, word confusion- 'revulsion' makes more sense in that context than 'repulsion', etc. Also, it's not from that section, but I must mention 'soporific heat'- did you mean 'soporific'? It seems completely at odds with the tone of the section.
Next, info-dumping, ie: the things about her being nearly seventeen, etc. Putting all this into one paragraph looks clumsy, and makes it seem as though it's just occurred to you, at that moment of writing, to mention it. Basically, it's unsubtle.
The spoken line is clichéd and it also seems rather strange- man wants to rape girl, girl sort-of fights him off, man sends girl elsewhere...
... - why has he suddenly lost all sexual interest?
I didn't feel worried for the character, because the scenario has been used many times before (and generally as a side story. See: any comic book series). I didn't feel that it had been written with any particular insight into the mind of any character- there were no little details to give it that realistic touch. Basically, it read more like a plan than a finished fic. I couldn't empathise with the character, and could not therefore feel scared on her behalf.
First of all Firelilly, well done for being sensible and humble enough to ask for criticism and help. Its not always easy to take crit, even if its constructive, so kudos.
I got to chapter two, then stopped. The spelling needs sorting out so re-read your work carefully with spell checker. Also, it would be a good idea to get a beta. We all make spelling errors, but if they happen frequently they become very distracting and frustrating for the reader, so for the sake of your fic I suggest you fix that first.
Second thing is your character is veering dangerously into Mary Sue territory. Have you ever read 'My Immortal?' Yours is not that bad, (My Immortal is pretty bad...) but long descriptions of a character are not interesting to read. There's no need for a lot of detail on someone's dress or eyes. What is more important is your characters feelings and thoughts and the world she lives in. Basically, we want to know WHO she is.
We cannot relate to a pretty, but two dimensional character. So when the rape or potential rape happens, we won't be able to empathise. I can also say she is going into mary sue-dom because your character is clearly a very pretty girl, (you spent a long time describing her amazing eyes, fair skin and auburn hair,) so when you claim she isn't that pretty, we know that simply isn't true.
thanks for the criticism it hurt but it was still good i will try working on it.
i totally get the last point you made moonphase its true, its just i need her to be pretty and sexually attractive at the same time as being really wierd looking- there has to be something in her appearacne that make the reader uneasy and i don't really know how to do that with out using the cliched odd eyes etc.
i'm soory but i like description but your right i should focus more or her mind and emotions than her apperacne i'll work on that its just that her apperance will become sybollically significant i hope... later.
To ...- your right revulsion is better but soporific is good i love that word- had to use it.
Rape is often used as a way to make one character emotionally unstable, and therefore maybe overused. I think not many writers really put the facts like should. Rape is very complex and of course everyone has his or her way of dealing with it afterwards, but I feel like most of the writers put it too simplistic and go over it way too lightly. About way over the top, though. I think in case an author's note is included, saying what one could get to read... Readers should not blame writers afterwards about being shocked or such. If anyone is aware that it's weak subject for him or her, then I think one shouldn't come nagging afterwards.
Even though it makes no sense in context and is thus jarring to read? I, too, like the word 'soporific', but it does not make sense there. I could beat around the bush, but I prefer to be direct, so- are you sure you know what it means?
@Bola- The problem with OTT rapefic isn't that it's 'shocking'; it's that it shatters the suspension of disbelief and makes something (that is supposed to be tear-jerking) hilarious.
I've never come across a hilarious rape scene before...
I have however come across writing that was hilarious and so they completely missed the point.
@Rayray- Badly-written rape scenes are funny. Ridiculously OTT rape scenes are funnier. Combine the two and you have hours of joy.
'The fiftyth fat old man rushed forwards, making her scream, for she knew she was completely dry.
"No, uncle-san!" She said as she recognized her uncle. "Dont hurt me!"
"Bwahaha, foolish cow, you are nothing but a child, time to teach you a lesson!" said Petter Pettygrew
(A/N: Hes her uncle! Dun dun duuun! :0)
And she cried out as he tied her to a fence with her own hair and then unzipped his trousers to reveal six feet of pure MAN.'
... You see?
my brain melted a little reading that xD
@...- You really do have a point here. I would like to think it's rather in disrespect of those that have been through that kind of trauma.
I think too many 'writers' think that it would give their stories something 'more'. I have read such things before, and I must say what annoys me most is the fact that some readers even think it is great and all... without sarcasm.
And then the writers thinking they're doing wonderful and being boosted by it. It seriously sickens me. It's especially sad for those that have the capacity to write such scenes - of which I have actually read some and get reviews saying that it is too intense. -rolls eyes-
In general, I don't think anyone should write about something they don't know shit of. It doesn't matter whether someone has really been through something - even though they mostly get the whole concept best - but fan fiction sites would be much better without those who don't take the effort to search information about their subjects.
yes i know what soporific means
agree with what Bola said which is why people who are serious about writing should find it really hard to write about rape. but just beacuse its hard doesn't mean we should shy away from it all together.
rape is not hilarious under any circumstance.
'Soporific heat hit her like an avalanche, as if flames were licking up her body and closing in on her throat.'
Do flames frequently have a soporific effect when they touch your skin?
Very well. Tell us. What does the word 'soporific' mean?
Oh rape is always good in a hot steamy spot of yaoi...
Did i go too far?? x3?
@83,
so do you want her to be quirky but good looking? Or a sexually arousing? What kind of attractive do you want her to be and , most importantly, WHY? What does it mean for the story? What difference would be made if she was average, girl-next -door pretty, or what? I'm not being mean, btw, they're genuine questions designed to try and figure the character out and what you are ryin to convey.
Also there are things you can add to her appearance to make her different other than the cliche eyes. Maybe a scar, a tatoo or a birthmark. Or maybe just leave it at her having unusual hair a that too signifys that she is special.
Sounds like firelilly's going for the infamous 'uncanny valley', where somebody looks mostly human but subtly... wrong, somehow. Classic example: your average clown, or Victoria Beckham. It's difficult to convey in words - one option would be not to simply say that somebody's unattractive, but that they are, in fact, rather beautiful... in the sort of otherworldly, unnatural manner that makes people's skin crawl to look at them.
Bear in mind, though, that this goes beyond mere unattractiveness - absolutely everyone's going to be creeped out by it at first, including any given Designated Love Interest (TM), presenting a clear impediment to their relationship. Imagine making out with a living statue (Twilight fans at the back, stop squealing), and you'll see where I'm going with this.
As a more general note on the story, there are a couple of bits that run contrary to the established setting. First off, the implication that the main character might be able to manipulate two or more elements, even if she can't at the moment. In-show, that's the exclusive territory of the Avatar, and they don't slip past the radar that easily. Second, red hair does not indicate firebending talent, for the simple and obvious reason that there are no redheads in the entire freakin' series. Seems like a classic case of the setting reshaping itself to accommodate the main character's speshulness.
It's Sophoric. With 'h'. It simply means 'sleepy making'. I suggest anyone who used that in sentence mentioned in 92 watches Wit, from 2001 with Emma Thompson.
It's hilarious and very dumb to use it that way? I would personally not fall asleep from being burned up.
I'm know that '...' is more than capable at defending themselves, but the whole 'rape is not hilarious ever :(' type thing is annoying me a little.
... was clearly not saying that rape itself is funny, but if someone writes it in such a ridiculously obscene and stupid manner, all you can do is bang your head on the keyboard and laugh (or cry.) Its the language and writing that is mocked, not rape itself.
Hate to bust your bubble Bola, but it's 'Soporific'
Google my dear...google helps all. But you got the meaning right, which is something I guess.
@Bola- The question was addressed to firelilly, as firelilly is the person who misused the word and still claimed to know its meaning, so I am not sure why you answered it.
@Rayray- Indeed.
@moonphase- Exactly. It baffles me that so many people are so very accomplished in the art of completely missing the point.
-frowns- Odd. Then I'm afraid that it's wrong in subtitles of aforementioned movie.
@...: I'm well aware, but I simply cannot stand plain dumbness like that.
Subtitles are rarely the most accurate source of information on a language.
You sure it wasn't 'sophomoric'? That's a word with a rather different meaning.
Hell, I know I'm all the way at 103, but I've got to direct this at 28 because if I don't it will annoy the hell out of me.
I have fifteen year old friends, and they have written some of the best lemons I have ever read. I think people underestimate the power of an educated imagination- if you know what sex is, what happens when, well, if you have an ounce of common sense you can put two and two together and result in a pretty good sex scene. I'm not as experienced as I'd like to say, but I still understand the process. All you need is some writing skill and the knowledge, and you're done.
Link to them, then. (Also, note that not all fifteen year olds are virgins.)
>>103 Why do people refer to them as 'lemons'? To me it's a ridiculous notion to call a sex scene anything other than a sex scene. Usually I can tell it'll be a bad fic because the author refers to citrus fruits instead of what it actually is.
There is nothing more immature than referring to sex as a type of FRUIT for gods sake!
>>105 Anonymous there is a reason for the Lemon term:
from wiki:
>Lemon: Explicit sex stories in general, especially in anime fan fiction, are known as lemon, lemony-goodness, and lemonade, a term which comes from a Japanese slang term meaning "sexy" that itself derives from an early pornographic cartoon series called Cream Lemon.
... Am I the only one who has, on occasion, been tempted to write a lemon about lemons?
>>105 It's an easily-recognisable slang term that's a lot simpler to fit into a 250-character summary than 'contains explicit sexual content'. Why not use it?
Without getting into the writing, I think it’s very important to take the charters into account too. You've got to ask yourself "Would charter A really rape Charter B and why?" If you’re not honest about this, OOCness will rear its ugly head. (God that sounded dirty)
108:
It often depends on the type of character. For example if said character raping another is a complete and utter nutbar, then it isn't out of the question.
Which is why it needs to be taken into account.
Besides, it depends on the nutbag. Some, like Rorschach from Watchmen or Johan from Monster would happily push you out of a skyscraper window, but rape? Out of the question.
Of course, in Johan's case, he'd probably then just have Roberto do it for him, or do something far, far worse to you, so you ain't exactly out of the woods yet, there.
What I don't like is when a normally nice character suddenly becomes this sadist rapist b/c they were "hiding there 'really' persona." God, I'd take mind control as a reason, but not that.
Good build-up should be taking into account too. I love fics, any fics, with tension. And as it was said before, implying rape can be just as scary as the real thing. The imagination is a powerful thing, can an authors friend if done right.
Rape...well I think it's okay to include it so long as it's written properly. I've seen fics where rape has been an aspect that does help further the character development and move the plot along effectively. But I do think rape in fanfics can sometimes be too much though. I've read sometimes where the author just treats their characters like crap.
I read a story once where there was multiple gang rapes on a character, and yet after a week of 'neglect' from the rapists this character decides she wants it - she seeks out one of her attackers and says she wants it =S. Then suddenly after having sex with her the rapist was oh so sorry and said he never wanted to do it in the first place, that he couldn't stand seeing his friends touch her that way. It made no sense and I felt like the author had written the story for the rape instead of writing the rape for the story.
So I feel that rape in fan fics is acceptable so long as it is used properly. Raping the characters just for the sake of writing that is bad and usually that is reflected in the writing. But it can be used properly, I’ve seen it used in cases where the character really grows from it and the struggles they go through…but sometimes it’s ridiculous.
Xx..xX
See, mentioning that you have regrets, that peer-pressure made you do it, and that you're very, very sorry is what you're supposed to do BEFORE you decide to boink the evidently-disturbed chick with Stockholm Syndrome of your own volition. Not the other way round.
I would advise skipping the boinking altogether and getting the poor girl some help, but this is rape-fantasy-land, where penises have magical therapeutic powers. Besides, the doctor would probably just try to rape her anyway, and then you're back to square one.
@Iaculus... Lawl.
It is true though, in most cases of rapefic, where the main character eventually decides that she wants to be raped, because she's grown to like it... I just seriously can't see it happening.
Now I've seen cases in real life of girls who will only go out with a man who is more than likely to beat the crap out of them, because that is all they have known from a young age. Someone saying they love them then beating them up.
But rape is an altogether different violation, and the person doing the raping will rarely try to manipulate the mind in the same way that someone who is abusive will.
But of course the trap in these fics, like Iaculus said, the doctor will inevitably try to rape has as well, or actually manage to do the deed, after which...
The lead character will go and ask some male, possibly her boyfriend, possibly not, to 'heal her' by having sex with her.
It's full of fail.
Penises do have magical, therapeutic powers. Or, at least, the ones that can talk do. Never seen a talking penis? I pity you. Their voices are wonderfully soothing, especially when they sing.
I think I'll survive if I go through life without ever hearing one of those. Little Shop Of Horrors voice comes to mind for some reason.
Audrey II much?
Oh Dear...
Name any? Lol. This could get off topic so easily.
This link is not safe for work, and possibly not for sanity either:
Oh Lord. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
I think I'll laugh now, and then cry later.
Hey, I warned you. I even warned you what it contained, but did you listen? Did you hell. Oh, and I wasn't kidding about the award. Believe it or not, that thing scored silver at the 1999 Cannes International Advertising Festival. Yes, you read that right.
Also, who says women doctors can't be rapists?
If the above is directed at me, I'm not complaining, it made me laugh to be honest.
What was it advertising???
@Iaculus: ...wow. That was...strangely fascinating.
I honestly never imagined seeing anything like that in my life...
Xx..xX
>>125 Actually, it was to 124. You stepped in midway.
It was an ad for a radio station run by a gay and lesbian broadcasting service operating out of Sydney. Can't fault them for lack of innovation, can you?
Definately not, I can just imagine peoples faces when that came on the air. Past the watershed I would imagine.
Nope. Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras Film Festival. High-rating show on prime-time TV.
This from a country currently motioning to ban small breasts in pornography for fear of encouraging paedophilia. Yeah.
You know, I've been asking my self the same question. Not just Dr But women in general. In all the rape fics I’ve seen, the rapist is a man. Sure, a woman may have a hard time forcing someone in to their bed physically, but there’s always blackmail or something like that.
Depends on the woman, right? I mean, there are over three billion on the planet, and in case you hadn't noticed, they ain't all dainty little flowers.
Even if we're going for generalities, though, data on domestic violence says that women are, on average, more likely to go for weapons in a fight. Size and strength mean rather less when one side's got a sharp, scary thing and the other hasn't.
lol at that Ad :D
that's called meta-modernism in marketing.
my teacher had showed to us about a year ago, and ad for an air conditioner
and there were two pairs of ... balls...
shut up dudes ok this is really bad cos little kids go on here like my cousin, he is only sixteen and this stuff is totally not suitable
Anonymous: I'm 17 so it's not much of a gap and I read them, I was reading rape from about the age of 14, I'm sure I'm not the only one who does/has read it.
And if they're worrying that much about that sort of content, that kid's eyes need opening to the real world.
well my cousin is one year younger than u dude and it is a big difference
Iaculus: You have a point.
I must say that a year isn't much of a difference because if my post was read properly I was reading and writing it at 14. I suppose it's a matter of perspective on how mature you can be on the subject and how much of the world has been opened up to your eyes to realize the horrors that it can hold.
However if Iaculus is correct and you are the troll, then there's probably no use in conveying such information.
What do you mean ONLY 16 ?...........hes not exactly a child, I think he can make his own mind up to what he can and cant read. Jesus.
I think we should stop feeding the troll...
why ppl bitching over a thread, and how their kids are going to read?
if you want to protect your kid from such content then uses a parental software to do so.
it is the same as TV they bitch over a program when they can simply turn off the stupid box.
... A village called...
See, I'm debating whether to put rape in my fic...not because the character will then immediately have to go to 'cleanse' their self by having sex just to then get raped by another five or so people...on the contrary, I'm not pairing them up with anyone at all.
So far the character has been tortured rather ruthlessly (and no, not just beat to a pulp, but rather harsh mental torture as well) See, the character at this point is feeling worthless, isolated from his friends and very weak. He's already come close to having a mental breakdown, and I think that if rape is introduced it will be the final step to making his captor exceed in finally breaking him down.
And I will of course be writing about the after effects...since the character is male he'll pretend nothing happened in his acute stage while dealing with his internal trauma, then he'll progress to the outside adjustment stage and therefore will be feeling anxious, wary of strangers, nauseous etc. (Yes, I've done my research) and also how the people he thought had deserted him will come and help him through his pain, making him realise he wasn't as much as an outsider as he had thought.
Thoughts?
Hmm...Well, I'm doing it at the end of a chapter...a black out, I think it's called, but I'm trying to distinguish the line between T rated (which is my story) and M rated. I mean I know the obvious 'don't go into too graphic description' but what is too graphic? I think I may have done it correctly but I'd just like others thoughts on what is seen as too graphic...
I haven't posted it yet, I'm just writing it out now, I'm just trying to find a suitable way to end it.
Like maybe they were forced against the wall, there was a sound of a zipper being undone, end of chapter, then starting the next chapter with how the character is feeling after it. Or something like that.
If that's all the detail you're going into on the matter, I think you can get away with T rating because you're leaving it to the imagination. What they imagine from then on is up to them.
Cool, thanks. Now I'm off to find a place I can hide from the fangirls after I post it up ;P
>>150 They can't watch into my super-secret ultra-confidential not-under-my-bed-at-all-really panic room jam packed with insect repellent. Can they?
Wait a minute....they can't watch me if they're too distracted by...a topless Jacob and Edward! -sends off vampire/werewolf failures-
This is something I just don't understand. Before someone was talking about the 'Romance of rape' how can rape be romantic? Isn't it about power and control, not love?
>>154 for some people, rape is a kink/sexual fantasy. I was reading in the paper a couple of weeks ago that a woman had expressed this fantasy on line in a chat site. She agreeed to meet up with a fella whom she got along with; only he invited all his mates and they gang raped her. She says it was rape, they say it was her fantasy and wanted it. It's currently in court. The paper pointed out (I can't remember if they used actual statistics, I will try and find it if your interested,) that gang rape was what some women fantatsied over. Plus, the people who like the romance of rape may be a little sadistic, so they kind of get a kick out of a character who struggles and sayshe/she doesn't want sex ("but their bodies say otherwise"- another reoccuring fanfic device that excuses the rape.)
So it may be a sign of a slightly more sadistic or masochistic leaning some people have. I base this theory on no facts, just my thoughts.
See, I once read this article, saying that when we feel pain, our brain sends good endorphins around our bodies, giving us a rush when we feel pain. Maybe it's cause of this that people fantasise or include rape in their fics (I fear it is the reason I'm including the subject in mine :S)
Well, I thik if we are at least honest about it, its a little better. If its a kink, its a kink- most of us have a weird fetish or kink of some kind. Sadomasochism is something some consenting couples practice. However, calling it 'romance' is pretty...:/
>>158 that was on an episode of Law&Order:SVU.
I don't feel like I have the right to say this, having never been in a relationship, but rape-fantasy just seems..Off to me. I've got nothing agents rough sex, but that's going a bit too far for me.
@Hex3618, I also read something (I read a lot and don't take notes) about couples that argue tend to have sex afterwards due to the adrenalin rush. (? Correct if mistaken!)
Not sure why I mention this in this particular thread, but here is my imput for today.
Speaking of consensual sex if, both parties are willing, but ones underage, that's called statutory rape. Oddly enough, I’ve read many lemons where one of the characters is clearly underage while the other in an adult, but no one seems to have a problem with it.
Although, I guess it depends on how much younger. If you're in your late teens (16-17) are you close enough to an adult so it doesn't matter?
I think it's a bit hard, in fanfiction, to pin-point how young is too young. You've got kid/teenagers running around saving the world on regular biases; so it's not hard to imagine that they'd have sex, even if their partner is an adult.
16 is the legal age in a lot of countries as well as states. You really need to take into account where the author is from before you start going "They're 16! it's statutory rape!"
Yes, the UK age of consent is sixteen.
as long as the rape isn't enough to make the readers uneasy in any way and its not described too much, e.g. too much violence, then i'm not too bad with it.
@TheNightShadow4, I guess it does depend a lot upon the country in suggestion. When you say too young, I immediately thought 12, but 13 and 14 is perhaps a normal thing with a boy/girlfriend now, but saying boy/girlfriend is something I imagine to be aged similary, not even with a 21something other.
Gak! Disgraceful!
>>169 That's kinda what I was getting at. Just because you’re at the age of consent doesn't mean you're ready to have sex, even if you think you are. If an older man or woman takes advantage of that, even if you wanted it, isn't that as bad as real rape? It's like abusing your power, or something.
God, today I was in art class, and there one of the other girls (who is 14) was bragging about how her and her boyfriend (18 or roundabout) were having sex. It just disgusted me.
Though what I really liked was that one of the other girls (also 14) in a relationship scolded her for doing it at such a young age. Turns out that not all 14 year old are horny sex addicts melodramatic gasp
>>>172 I want to shake that girls hand! (the second one, not the first)
I'll admit I quite frequently seek out non-con fics (and torture fics). Personally I'd much rather read about the aftermath of rape or torture than the actual event.
I like to see characters I like put in a vulnerable position they would never be put in in cannon and how they and the people around them react to that situation. Rape and torture is an excellent device for an author to create that situation – but only when it’s done not only sensitively but well (though I suppose those could be considered one and the same). However it doesn’t always have to be rape or torture that creates that effect.
I think sometime in fandom, as the subject of rape isn’t such a taboo one, that it can almost be a default. Rather than looking for other ways to create the same situation of vulnerability, sometimes authors just default to rape and that’s when a fic can get bad and it feels like rape is added almost as an afterthought (which in my opinion it should never be; when rape is in a story, it should be a story about rape - unless it’s a particularly long story, in which case a portion of the story should be about rape - oh forget it, you get what I’m trying to say, don’t make rape insignificant).
Sometimes you can find some very good stories on the subject (a Digimon fic I read a while back is the most prominent example in my mind - in which there is no 'on screen' - as it were - scenes of rape), sometimes, and more often, they're abysmal (numerous examples). As has been said, the best stuff usually focuses on how the victim (or even aggressor!) feels and reacts after the deed, rape recovery fic, as I think of them, rather than a simple description of the act itself and perhaps the immediate aftermath (and so many fics seem to do ONLY that). While describing the act can be useful so the reader knows exactly what happens, it's not I feel, an important, or even necessary, part in most cases.
There have been many times when I started reading a story where a character is raped, then had to click back, when they suddenly realise their love for their aggressor, or want consenting sex with someone else immediately after (or as close that it makes little difference - though there's one Stargate Atlantis fic where that actually works, in its own way), is raped again almost immediately, or some other absurdly unlikely event occurs.
It's unfortunate that the prevalence of Bad!fic in the 'genre' (if it can really be referred to as such) can completely distract from the stories that deal with the subject quite well.
The stories that handle the subject well are the ones that can be difficult to read (as, after all, that is there whole point), it’s when you’re too busy mentally criticising the ludicrousness of the situation that you know a fic is going to far (or not far enough). After all, a story dealing with rape is should make the reader uncomfortable (not necessarily afraid or disgusted, just uncomfortable).
Sorry about the mini essay, I got a bit carried away.
Oh and @ 130 I just thought I should say there’s actually some cannon female-raping-male in Stargate SG-1 (Hathor/Daniel). It’s never confronted after the episode (in fact I’m pretty sure I remember them saying in interviews they just wanted to forget that whole episode), but there’s some fan fiction out there about it (I don’t really remember if any of it’s any good though).
When I was 16 a friend of mine got a bf who was in his mid twenties and they had a lot of sex. Her parents allowed it (the whole 'you're going to do it anyway, so I'd rather know about it.' thing.) In any case, he wa using her and dumped her in the most disgusting fashion before going on the another 16 year old virgin. It was definitly predatory but she was of age, so what could really be done? I look at that situation now, and at the time I thought it was bad, but now, all these years later, that guy is still a bit older than what I am now. I would never, ever, ever look at a school kid!! As for J, again I completly agree. I've also read torture and rape fics,and some of them have been both heartbreaking and life affirming. Others have been bad; I actually feel like I've watched an exploitation film or something...
I really want to know how one of the readers of one of my fics have managed to confuse rape with two lovers getting it on.
I don't know if I made it clear enough with the one yelling at him to stop, the fact they're tied up, being hacked to ribbons, actually explaining what the person on the receiving end is feeling and then their after emotions of being really fricken angry at themself and their captor and saying to their subordinates who find him: "Find him, and bring him to me." because that totally implies he wants to do things back and not outright kill him for it!!
sigh I don't know if it's because they're foreign or what that this is happening ¬_¬
i hate it when your reading a story and then all of a sudden the writer thinks "hmmmm... i need to make this really edgy and interesting... OH I KNOW! i'll make the leading lady have been raped even though she was fine five minutes ago..." thats annoying... either they do it tastefully and the story makes sense and you follow it or it's just ridiculous... "i'm being raped and beaten every day... but as soon as i go to school i'm fine and i'm seeing my best friend who i'm in love with... who JUST HAPPENS TO BE EDWARD CULLEN! and now i'm smiling... and i go home and make dinner for charlie... and then he rapes me...but i won't tell Edward about it because it upsets him but he's known about it for years but i won't tell any one because otherwise he'll get in trouble... and i'm entirely mentally stable but i'll try to kill myself to escape him... even though i'm eighteen and COULD leave home... etc etc..." some of them are really distasteful....
@177, thank you, thank you for much for bringing a little laughter to my day. Oh, so true, and yet still humerous. :) My sides hurt now.
TheNightShadow: You know, I think you're right. Either that or the fact that they seem to know little English (seriously if you read the reviews you'd probably be sat there a good 5 minutes trying to form something coherent from it)
I think it vastly depends on how the story is written. I have to agree that some of the time it seems like the writer just wants to write about rape, rather than using it as a good plot device. I admit I generally don't read rape fics, but if anyone's interested, this is a very well written (in my opinion) HP rape fic:
http://slashcity.org/rushlight/hp/absolution.htm
I've read rape fics, and I've wrote a couple, but I hate fics that just make them all good and happy again. I read this one fic where Harry Potter had been beaten and raped by his Uncle, and then Snape came along and apologised and told Harry he was his mate, and Harry was all happy and smiley. WHAT??? It was crazy! I like good, psychologically correct stories. I want them to act like real human beings, not gary-sues. I'll have a look at that fic, dmitri. I need to read some good ones...
Rape can be an effective tool in setting the scene and pace for a fic. As long as you put disclaimers and rate it correctly, fewer 'innocent' readers will get to it. If they do then they're probably going to read what would actually happen in most anime series if the character were 'real humans'.
Nowadays with everything on the news there isn't so much need to protect whatever you define as 'kids' except before secondary school age. I think rape can be a very educating, eye-opening and a very effective plot device if used properly but, like alot of things in all types of writing, it can be overdone or not done properly then it's unnecessary or in the worst cases highly offensive. However, the use of rape in fanfiction is fine, however graphic as long as the suitable warnings are there. Obvs, on ff.net it can't be really bad because of the ratings but it's not the only website out there.
I think that rape is something really serious and that fanfic writers take it waayy too lightly. Sometimes it needs to be in there for the plot(hell, the comic I'm writing has child abuse, murder and rape in it), but I think that sometimes writers completely overlook the fact that it was rape and then write someone who's well- not always -happy- exactly but they're nothing like they would be if it'd happened. My biggest pet hate is when the writer has the victim and rapist fall in love and then live happily ever after, because that's just fucking retarded. With my characters they're messed up in the head and they have issues with it and I've tried to keep it as realistic as possible.
But as for the kink thing? It's the same as my absolute disgust for shouta/loli(paedophilia). If someone got off on rape then I'd bet you anything once it had happened to them they would change their tune.
So I decided to put rape in my fic...rated it appropriately (the fic is rated T but I clearly stated at the top the chappie was M) put in his feelings during and after it, and apparently it seems to have gone down well (no, rapist and victim did not fall in love/victim didn't instantly have cleansing sex.). Now all I have to do is write about the ensuing psychological trauma. Ah, busy busy...
I think rape in a fanfiction is better then rape in real life.
I think rape in a fanfiction is better then rape in real life.
I think rape in a fanfiction is better then rape in real life.
On the other hand, with rape IRL, you will never have to deal with grammatical errors. I suppose it's a matter of priorities...
Of course, the poor person being raped - if a writer like us - would only be concerned that he's telling her to shut up or he'll kill her in the correct fashion, with the right emphasis.
Hmm, that leads me to a good point... what do people think of males being raped by females? Have you ever read it, if so, did they actually manage to carry it off correctly?
Two words: Battle Royale.
@ 192: As I said before (though I don't blame you for not noticing it at the end of my rant) a man being raped by a woman is canon in Stargate SG-1. Of course it's not really confronted at all in the show, but there's some fanfic out there that deals with it. I don't remember if any of it's any good though (I'll take another look sometime).
I don't watch SG-1... so I wouldn't know.. but now I'm fascinated... who, when and what series?
It's in the season one episode 'Hathor'. It's heavily implied that Daniel Jackson was an unwilling participant in sex with the goa’uld Hathor while under the influence of her drug.
He's found catatonic, in a bedroom, by his teammates who then leave him there, as saving the base is a more pressing matter. Later on in the episode he appears fine, but when confronted with a pool of dead symbiote larvae, he says that 'A lot of that [DNA] will probably be mine.’ (to which Jack says 'Ew' and Daniel replies with a quiet 'Yeah').
Unfortunately it is never mentioned again (as far as I can remember). I’m fairly sure I remember hearing somewhere that the writers wished they had never made the episode, so that could explain why.
It’s a shame that they never confronted it, as I really think Daniel is the kind of character who would have been greatly affected by it and particularly at that time, as he had not long lost his wife (I mean that literally - she was lost, a host to a goa’uld - not as a euphemism for death).
Male raped by females is a subject I know little about, mainly because some people think it doesn't even exist, which then partly makes my feminist side get up in a rage. Anyway, I think about it pretty much the same as male-female, male-male and female-female rape; that it is a delicate, traumatising subject that shouldn't be written about as terribly as in some fanfics I've read, but should be a subject thought over carefully and tread upon lightly and only used in fics when deemed necessary. Also with no DANG CLEANSING SEX AFTERWARDS!!!
From what I've gathered from my mother, in Eastenders or some similar soap opera (so we're clear, I hate those shows) it is heavily implied that a man was drugged, then raped by his obsessive ex. Or something like that, I wasn't really listening :P
(Warning, Battle Royale spoilers ahead)
Yuichiro is dying, having been shot. Mitsuko, half-touched by his kindness, half-convinced that he was out to 'take her trust' (having been raped/abused rptdly as a child) earlier, proceeds to molest him ('touching makes it better') and then forces him to have sex through his death throes, as he screams in agony. At some point during the scene he dies (this enrages her). At the end of the scene, she wees on his corpse, gets dressed and walks off.
It achieves the...
... effect it aims for, namely shock and disgust in the reader (or arousal, if you're the necrophilic sort), but I doubt it's a particularly realistic depiction of rape...
slightly off topic here but...I only got through two volumes of Battle Royale before I had to just give it up. I love the first film, but the manga was just...too much. And its not like I can't handle grim and graphic violent stories or manga's, but Battle Royale was too hard for me.
Oh, come on. You obviously cannot handle 'graphic violent mangas' if you thought BR was 'too much'. It's so ridiculous in places that the gore is hilarious; you can tell the creators had fun with it. The panty shots and... limited... grasp of female anatomy are amusing, as is the pointless nudity. It's also a shame that you gave up after two volumes; the characters are intricately designed, the pacing/tension is superb and the script is brilliant in places. There's a genuine love for one's fellow man...
... that pervades the series, along with some very perceptive comments on human nature. It's still a very flawed series (plot-holes, etc) , as anyone who has read it can testify, but it isn't the stuff of nightmares.
As a side-note, the BR film is TERRIBLE. Did you see what they did to Takako's character?!
Part of me liked the film's version of Kiriyama, though this could be because I am an uber Masanobu Andou fan XD
>>203, no, things like that are down to indiviuals. Something one person can laugh at, another cannot. Plus, you don't know what other mangas, books or anime's I have seen.
Of course people have different thresholds for gore etc. The fact that you couldn't laugh at it means that you couldn't handle it, and as BR is highly unrealistic, because of both the stylised (often bizarre) art and disbelief-suspending storyline, there is no way you would be able to handle something more realistic, something that was actually hardcore. The gore of BR is the gore of a teen slasher. Which other manga have you read that were supposedly grim and graphic?
@Francys- Kiriyama smiles in the film. He was also bullied. That is not Kiriyama. He is the weakest character in the manga, though (villian-sue ahoy!), so it could be worse (that hair couldn't, though). Takako Chigusa, for example, could have used the word 'pee-pee' and then stabbed a guy just for scarring her fa- oh. Wait.
@Francys- Kiriyama smiles in the film. He was also bullied. That is not Kiriyama. He is the weakest character in the manga, though (villian-sue ahoy!), so it could be worse (that hair couldn't, though). Takako Chigusa, for example, could have used the word 'pee-pee' and then stabbed a guy just for scarring her fa- oh. Wait.
>>207
I can laugh at JTHM, I don't laugh at Battle Royale. My comment didn't say it was too realistic, I know it isn't But its hard for me to see young teens being raped and beaten up and killed in really ott ways. It made me uncomfortable.
JTHM is about as grim and graphic as the Clangers.
that wasn't what I was trying to say. Forget it.
Battle Royale... was just weird.
Now Cannible Halocaust - that is horrific.
Some people write that kind of fanfics to envoke an emotion. I read this Death Note story Fading Light and it really made you empathize with the characters. You could feel how trapped he was, the fear and anticipation. It's also a really sad and gripping storyline. Light confessing his love for L, but Ryuzaki being cruel (Only because he feared that Light was Kira and that he secretly loved him back). Light then ran off, not realising he ended up in a town full of brothels and violence. It may not seem that interesting from my description, but it wasn't what I was expecting. I really got angry at one part, but later on that guy his comeuppance in jail... =] I think he learnt his lesson.
Okay, I got caught up describing the story, accident, sorry. But, it doesn't have to be overly violent or horrific. Some people do go over the top and it makes me sick. I only dare look for stories like this because it's a very emotional topic and I try to understand what some people go through. Fanfictions are an easy way to go about that because you know the characters well and you don't need to go through the introductions.
Rape in fanfiction.... now there's a touchy subject. Granted, I used it. Actually, it's part of how I interpret a character. However, I keep away from graphical description, and instead focus on the psychological aspects and the damage it causes. Often, rape in fiction (Not just fanfiction) is trivialised, romanticised and simplified. Lord knows I hate the Rape = True Love-stuff you often get. Or the '(S)he started enjoying it half-way trough, so it doesn't count!'. No, people, rape doesn't work that way.
There's this fic I'm reading which contains rape... and it's so good! seriously... it's one of those stories where you actually don't want to read it, but you're way to curious if they're going to be okay. soooo... I guess it's okay. But a writer should warn his or her readers beforehand.
I think it shouldn't be used so easly. Many people don't know what it's like to be really raped. I haven't been raped if you were wondering, but I have seen how it changes people who were raped, in people I don't know anymore. I admit I have read fanfiction with rape but there was little or no warning for it. I didn't read the rape part I pasted it. I think it is cruel for people to use that in a fanfiction.
I just like the drama it brings in the story so I use it often, I hate a story that's too lovey-dovey so rape is just the perfect element to add to a story that contains cruel stuff like demons or military (Kehehehehe... Sorry lil' Kuroyuri the next chapter will be a HELL for you chuckle) I just want the chara that got raped is saved by someone eventually. It makes me go "Kya! that's SO romantic!"
So I know how it is to be raped, because my bff got raped and she was hurt very much, whenever I write about it I first read real life stories about it, which mostly make me cry (Well, I started to do it only recently and didn't have a chance to add it in my fanfics yet.)
But I guess not everyone likes it, it's ok if it's not your cup of tea, but those are simply stories so don't take it too personal.
Rape works AS LONG AS IT'S WRITTEN PROPERLY! In context, with characters acting like they've been raped afterwards works. Otherwise leave it. Personally, the one time I've used rape in a fanfiction, the character ended up killing her rapist in as brutal a fashion as possible and experienced after-effects for a long time.
I'm doing my own work, more that than fanfic in the last two to three years =) I think I might scratch one of my stories, as a peice of work, and make it into a Twilight fic ;) haha or maybe HSM =)
you can look out for it, dunno what it'll be called but it will be put up by BellaEdwardZanessa.x so you'll know thats hennaaaaa =D
x
I use rape in my fanfics too but I use it as a way to deal what has happend to me.
Sometimes I get so mad at some Rapefics when its written like junk.
Rape is not love, Its not affaction and there could be no way you would fall in love with your rapist.
I use rape in my fanfics too but I use it as a way to deal what has happend to me.
Sometimes I get so mad at some Rapefics when its written like junk.
Rape is not love, Its not affaction and there could be no way you would fall in love with your rapist.
I read a brilliant story set in 9th century ish, the author used rape, twice in the story, the first time the main character's father chose her a husband and he consumated the marriage without her permission meaning the woman could not be remarried and sort of became exiled, the second time a female warrior was raped by savages which meant she couldn't be with someone she loved. This was written well because it looked at how the person felt after and how it changed the peoples lives, the first time the child born from the incedent killed her mother the second time the woman was accepted and lived hapily ever after
when appropiate it;s fine by me, but i feel like it does need to have it's purpose if you all get me. for instance to bring two people together, otherwise i don't mind but i'm not to fond of it either
I like the idea of rape's 'purpose' being that of speed dating...
... Nonconsensual speed-dating? I bet there's a market.
I don't like reading about that or abuse like: father to daughter and the mom dosnt want to tell anyone or just let's it happen
I read a lot of rape fic actually, but never with rape used as a mean to bring the rapist and the victim together. That's just... wrong on so many levels. Most fics I've read use it to explain the character going dark, or give the story more dept by having the character deal with being raped. Rape works well to really make you hate a character. Personally, I think rape is the worst thing you could do to someone, but (no offens to anyone who experianced it) it is interesting to read about what it does to someone.
Malea, there's a pro author who's used rape as an expression of love:( Needless to say, I don't bother with said author any more.
I think that the use of rape as a way of promoting the character further into a story is the way to go. There are cases where the victim could possibly fall for the rapist but it's highly doubtful, considering real-life circumstances. Any good author can turn circumstances into a way to further develop the character into something that they wish to get a point across, whether it good or bad. I believe that authors should use it, and not just because I have done so myself, because not everything in a story is as it seems, you have to read deep into it. As of how rain is not just rain but can mean cleansing for a person or it could muddy things up a bit more for them.
Personally, I don't think rape is a form of expressing love or to bring victim and rapist together, but a tool to build said victim up to a point where the author needs him/her to be to overcome or succumb to certain events later in the story.
I've written two fanfics dealing with the subject of rape. As someone else pointed out, for some people, it is a way of dealing with some of those bad feelings. With me, it was what happened to one of my friends, and how that affected me.
I think it can be a great writing tool, however, I am kind of sick and tierd of the number of writers who misuse it. And I don't think it is because of badily written sex scenes. I think it has to do with the fact, as many people have mentioned in this thread, the way they treat rape.
To many people treat rape to lightly. Characters get over it way to fast. It's treated as if it is romantic, when it isn't. Also, rape does not equal love. People who are in marriages with their rapest are there, typically not because of true love, but because they can't break the system of abuse.
Oh... and I almost forgot... for those who want to know what a OC rape fic is, this is the worst I've come across.
I write in the SVU fandom a lot and read a hell of a lot of stuff from there, so I've seen both sides of the spectrum and all else inbetween. I've read absolute crap where the woman, who is a rape detective, who was raped and was perfectley fine and wanted to have normal sex with her boyfriend the day after, and I've read one where it's so unbeleiveablly amazing and well written, the writer is either amazingly talented or has lived through it herself.
But if you write it carfully, there's nothing wrong with using it.
@Bella
Which is IRONIC, concidering Oliva's reaction to being ALMOST raped. I tend to stay away from fandoms like SVU...